Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Cargo
Fdx Passover Pay Issue >

Fdx Passover Pay Issue

Notices
Cargo Part 121 cargo airlines

Fdx Passover Pay Issue

Old 05-23-2007, 07:04 PM
  #31  
Organizational Learning 
 
TonyC's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Default

Originally Posted by Jake Speed View Post

And here in lies the problem. Which is right? Past practice or what the company feels would be cost saving measures for training based on equipment?

According to the contract, the Company's needs determines which is right, and it could vary from one situation to another. Past practice is that both strategies have been used at different times. If the Company had always done it one way, which was to our satisfaction, and then they all of a sudden did it a different way, which was to our dissatisfaction, then it would make sense to launch a grievance based on the deviation from past practice. The trouble is, they've done it both ways, with no complaints, until the Union decided to take up the complaint of a pilot who wanted to keep a training date that the Company cancelled.



Originally Posted by Jake Speed View Post

The union chose to ignore Pilot B's complaint and side with the company arbrogating seniority.

In fact, the Union did not choose to ignore Pilot B's complaint. They took the issue up with the Company in the initial phases of the grievance process, realized they were arguing the same logic the Company used to defend the already filed and yet unresolved grievance, and looked for a mirror to wipe the egg off their face. How they could get $150 for a bunch of pilots and then be accused of not going to bat for them after the egg facial amazes me.


You will get no argument from me that the Contract lacks specific guidance on how to handle those situations, and better language could prevent such fiascos in the future. (Such language may have unintended consequences, too.) However, I will not agree that the Union failed to represent a segment of our seniority list in that case. They didn't win, but they did as much as they could.




.
TonyC is offline  
Old 05-23-2007, 07:07 PM
  #32  
Organizational Learning 
 
TonyC's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Default

Originally Posted by Busboy View Post

Tony,

Just curious...What would happen if the 727/SO was awarded ANC MD11/FO on Bid#1 and 727/CAP on Bid#2? Because he decided he didn't want to go to the MAdDog?

I know that is the way, myself and many of my friends have gotten out of unfavorable training dates. By bidding off it, on the next bid. Are you saying the company could have forced me to go to school for something or somewhere I bid off of?

It is my understanding that yes, they could have made you go to school.




.
TonyC is offline  
Old 05-23-2007, 07:09 PM
  #33  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Default

I would expect someone to go to bat for me, on that one.
Busboy is offline  
Old 05-23-2007, 07:20 PM
  #34  
Organizational Learning 
 
TonyC's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Default

Originally Posted by Busboy View Post

I would expect someone to go to bat for me, on that one.

And that's half of the problem.

Another 727 SO bids everything at 100% hoping to move up as fast as possible. On the first bid, he's awarded 727 FO, and he has a training date in 3 months. A month before he starts training, he's awarded MD-11 FO with a training date of 18 months from now. If he goes to 727 FO school, he can earn narrow-body FO pay for 15 months. If he doesn't, he'll be stuck earning narrow-body SO pay for the entire time. He wants to keep his training date. You want to drop yours.


Which is right?


Again, the Contract was written to support the needs of the Company. If they need him as an SO more than as an FO, he'll lose the training date. If they need him in the 727 right seat, he'll train. If they need your pilot in ANC as an MD-11 FO until his 727 Captain training rolls around, he'll train. If they don't, he won't.


Depending on the situation, there are benefits to both ways -- for the Company, and for us. The trouble is, THEY get to decide. Guess who always wins.





.
TonyC is offline  
Old 05-23-2007, 07:37 PM
  #35  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 424
Default

Tony,
Give these guys a break, we both know they got hosed and the union told them to pound sand.

I RFO'd with one of these guys, and he told me he talked to his block rep and was told that he had a hard time convincing the older dudes about his grievance request. Said that he was just lucky to be awarded a widebody so soon, they had to be 727 S/Os for years... Basically, shut up and color..

You can defend these dudes as much as you want, but they did nothing to defend these guys when they knew they got hosed. But then again, the over 60 engineers certainly deserve all the help they can get...
nightfreight is offline  
Old 05-23-2007, 07:49 PM
  #36  
Organizational Learning 
 
TonyC's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Default

Originally Posted by nightfreight View Post

Tony,
Give these guys a break, we both know they got hosed and the union told them to pound sand.

I RFO'd with one of these guys, and he told me he talked to his block rep and was told that he had a hard time convincing the older dudes about his grievance request. Said that he was just lucky to be awarded a widebody so soon, they had to be 727 S/Os for years... Basically, shut up and color..

You can defend these dudes as much as you want, but they did nothing to defend these guys when they knew they got hosed. But then again, the over 60 engineers certainly deserve all the help they can get...

I had dinner on a layover with the Block Rep that was taking most of those calls. During that dinner, he took a call from a disgruntled member, and he took nearly twenty minutes out of his dinner to make sure he answered each and every question the member had. I never once heard him tell the guy he was lucky to be where he was, I never once heard him say anything about having a hard time convincing "older dudes" to hear the grievance, and I never once heard anything resembling "pound sand." Such characterizations are both false and unfair.

I know these guys feel let down, and I can appreciate the frustration. But I can assure you that it's not the Union's fault. The Union did more than I thought they could, and they won more than I thought they could. For them to now be accused of these things is ludicrous.



.
TonyC is offline  
Old 05-23-2007, 08:02 PM
  #37  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 424
Default

Sorry Tony, just relaying a conversation. I should have called him a liar.

Anyone else have a story like this?
nightfreight is offline  
Old 05-23-2007, 08:12 PM
  #38  
Organizational Learning 
 
TonyC's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Default

Originally Posted by nightfreight View Post

Sorry Tony, just relaying a conversation. I should have called him a liar.

Anyone else have a story like this?

No, I don't think we have to go there.

I heard one conversation with one guy on one day. I can't vouch for everything that everyone said. Could he have run in to someone with a bad attitude and gotten an unpleasant result? I'm sure he could have. Nobody's perfect. But that's not even the point I think we're arguing here.


Beside manner or not, the issue under examination is whether the Union sacrificed the seniority rights of a group of junior pilots. Given the circumstances of the Contract, past practices of the Company, and the effort that was exerted to put egg on our collective faces and still walk away with a monetary award, albeit little more than a token, I can't see how one could argue that the Union just rolled over on junior folks just because they were junior. They went to bat, and then cut our losses.




.
TonyC is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Zoro
Cargo
32
07-26-2012 06:32 AM
Coffee Bitch
Cargo
115
05-23-2007 08:02 AM
capt_zman
Cargo
10
10-18-2006 01:02 PM
SC-7
Cargo
55
08-31-2006 04:49 AM
MalteseX
Cargo
4
08-30-2006 04:23 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices