SC-7

Here's one for Tony C.

I don't know the exact number offhand, but several guys on the training letter for ANC had their training pushed back 5-6 months due to the incoming wave of purple nuggets going direct to the right seat.
While jumpseating in the back of the slave ship the other day, I heard that the company isn't planning on paying passover to the guys that got slipped. Anyone else heard that one?

Edit: I probably should have posted this in the Fedex hiring this summer thread, but the purple nugget eupemisms are going too strong to interrupt.

RedeyeAV8r

[QUOTE=SC-7]I don't know the exact number offhand, but several guys on the training letter for ANC had their training pushed back 5-6 months due to the incoming wave of purple nuggets going direct to the right seat.
While jumpseating in the back of the slave ship the other day, I heard that the company isn't planning on paying passover to the guys that got slipped. Anyone else heard that one?QUOTE]

Doesn't matter what you hear. Contractually speaking, If a Senior Pilot has a Bid award on on a certain aircraft and the company activates a junior Pilot into the same Aircraft seat in the Same domicile ahead of a Senior Pilot that triggers Passover pay for the Senior Pilot or any Pilot who is senior to Junior pilot the day he completes training (when he he activated in the seat, not the day he enters training. This assumes a couple things........the Senior Pilot did not waive Passover pay by swapping training dates with a more Junior Pilot. The Senior Pilot did not do a lateral bid (A300FO to MD-11 FO no change in pay) and the Senior Pilot has an award on the Same Aircraft where the newbie is going.

Example MEM 727 S/O John Doe seniority # 4100 and 25 more MEM 727 S/O's # 4101-4125 were all awarded ANC MD-11 FO on this last bid. His training date is Feb 2007and the pthers follow in Mar-APR 2007. Newhire "Purple Nugget" Bob Jones was one of the 8 new hires last week. His Seniority # is 4691. He is going directly into the MD-11 Right seat in ANC. After his intial 1 week indoc he starts MD11 ground school with a tentative completion date of 25 Aug 2006.

Assuming he does well and passes everything, once he is activated to the line in ANC............all the Senior Pilots who are awaiting training or maybe have just began training for ANC MD11 FO bid award start receiveng Passover pay.

Confused???????????

SC-7

Thanks for the review. You've now demonstrated that we both understand what is supposed to happen under the current contract. However, over the years I have seen a few commonly accepted policies and maybe even a contract stipulation or two massaged by management when it suits them to do so. Maybe you haven't, and good for you if not. My question concerns whether or not they have done that in this case.

Over.

FoxHunter

Hope you don't have money riding on that statement. It has been my experience at Seaboard and Tigers that things that we think are crystal clear in the contract turn out not to be. This happens even when taken to arbitration.

If the company tries not to pay passover pay they will take the position that there was no "bid award" with a new hire position. They will also argue that the position involves first year pay for the new hire.

RedeyeAV8r

I do not have money riding on this nor will it affect me..............

There is much confusion on this issue.........Many think all Senior Pilots would rate passover pay. I was simply trying to spell what the contract states. A Senior Pilot must have a Bid Award on the Same Aircraft Seat in the Same domicile............and be bypassed by a Junior Pilot.

I said "Contractually" Senior Pilots would rate Passover. It would not surpirse me if MGT tried to skirt that...........

It would be a Large grievance from ALPA and one worth fighting.
My prediction is the company will pay it. Time will tell.

SixMileHi

The way passover pay works is that as one junior crewmember takes his new position (activated) one passed over, more senior crewmember starts drawing passover pay. Not every, more senior guys get all at one time. It is a one for one trade off. And I am certain the company will follow the contract on this one.

RedeyeAV8r

Not true.......there is no 1 for 1. Contractually....... Any senior Pilot who was awarded the same seat position and domicle as the jR pilot rates passover once the Junior Pilot is Activated......assuming the more Senior Pilot was witheld from training and did not waive passover during a training date swap.

Section 24 CBA

Except as provided in Section 24.D.2., D.3. and D.4., required training for a crew position shall be scheduled by system seniority, senior first, for that crew position.

Passover Pay Due To Junior Pilot's Early Activation
In case of a junior pilot's activation to a higher paying position out of seniority order, every senior pilot who meets the following prerequisites shall be paid as if he had activated in that higher paying position (passover pay):

the junior pilot and the senior pilot(s) hold an award for the same crew position; and

the junior pilot's award is from the same posting as the senior pilot's award or from a subsequent posting and

the Company chooses to activate the junior pilot prior to the senior pilot(s) and the junior pilot's activation delays the training and activation of the senior pilot(s); and

the senior pilot actually activates into his awarded crew position.

FoxHunter

That is the way it worked at Flying Tigers ALPA contract, but I believe that is not the case here, yet.

TonyC

No, I haven't heard that particular flavor of rumor.


As has been previously explained, if a pilot bids a seat, and a junior pilot is activated into the seat as a result of training out of order on the same Vacancy Posting, that pilot should begin receiving Passover Pay.


It's anybody's guess as to how The Company might want to twist that language and/or intent, or how they might want to take it to a grievance. We'll just have to see how it goes.


(Sometimes The Company has to do stupid things like that to wake some pilots up from their comfortable complacency. Anybody notice how much help, aka Vacation Buyback, The Company wants us to extend them next month?)


.

Nitefrater

I think the senior pilot will begin to accrue passover pay when the junior pilot activates, but he won't actually collect it until he himself activates...
See the last line from Redeye's contract quote.