Purple or Brown: Who's schedules are better?
06-06-2007, 06:42 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Who knows...waiting for a bid
Posts: 379
Bones,
I also thought that was a pretty accurate comparison. I would say that, for the guys who can stand to live in Memphis, life is good. I flew with a captain, and he said, "I used to get mad when I missed my kids soccer games, now I get mad when I miss practice." So the reserve gig in Memphis on the Slave ship can be extremely good if you are trying to stay home with the family....it's just that it IS in Memphis.
Hay
I also thought that was a pretty accurate comparison. I would say that, for the guys who can stand to live in Memphis, life is good. I flew with a captain, and he said, "I used to get mad when I missed my kids soccer games, now I get mad when I miss practice." So the reserve gig in Memphis on the Slave ship can be extremely good if you are trying to stay home with the family....it's just that it IS in Memphis.
Hay
06-06-2007, 07:33 AM
#14
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by BonesF15
some observations:
reserve - ups...more blg, more pay per day, trip preference, more transparent system, normally get a 24n7 at home and not on a layover.
fdx perk...if you call in sick and scheds does not try to use you no hrs are deducted from your sick bank.
commuting - fdx way better...more airline DH's, can't be bumped under normal circumstances at the last minute, more opportunities to deviate from the scheduled pairing although this has really taken a step backwards recently.
ups perk... if you have a deviation bank you keep it long er than the current bid month, and they get more commercial tickets than before.
bidding - ups... you can see what everyone has bid real time up until bid closes.
fdx bid every month ups bid every two except for nov and dec.
domestic - fdx... more day flying, longer layovers, more double dh's / city purity ( going downhill fast), more variety of out and backs, no sdf-ont out and backs
.
intl - ups md/74 guys have it better than fdx. ups has more 1 leg days, fdx is becoming an intl hub turn machine. 75/76 more like fdx md11 but relief pilots live in the cockpit like hobo's and get stepped on by the crew. All brown md's have bunks AND a row of 3 bulkhead seats. ANC lines suck for both! Many short, hard time trips that are not commuter friendly.
senority - ups pilot has moved up faster over the last couple yrs, fdx pilot has no room to complain though.
uniforms - tossup... ups uniforms are ugly but they give you more than you need or want, even luggage. fdx folks look more like textbook pilots but you get $150 per yr to spend. (still a good benny based on industry standards)
retirement - ups has double size b-fund half size a-fund compared to fdx.
medical - both pilots use ups, cheaper, better, and more flexible.
union - ups enjoys better unity, much better at cooperating during contract negotiations on things like not flying extra etc. IPA has definitely handled the age 60 fiasco more gracefully. FDX guys fly disputed pairings and screw over their fellow crewmembers. (sore subject)
domiciles - ...ups by a mile, take a critical look at mem and sdf and see for yourself. lax/ont=tossup anc=anc subic or mia = both foreign countries friendly to americans but big difference in cost.
(will be interesting to see how europe and asia shakes out)
training - ups is more of a train to proff atmosphere vs fdx fear and intimidation program.
pay - other than foodstamps for the first yr for ups it is almost a wash.
ups fo's are quickly catching up to fdx rates. Most ups folks seem to like the single payscale thing. fdx has better intl override, ups has better perdiem rates
one cavemans opinion...flame on
reserve - ups...more blg, more pay per day, trip preference, more transparent system, normally get a 24n7 at home and not on a layover.
fdx perk...if you call in sick and scheds does not try to use you no hrs are deducted from your sick bank.
commuting - fdx way better...more airline DH's, can't be bumped under normal circumstances at the last minute, more opportunities to deviate from the scheduled pairing although this has really taken a step backwards recently.
ups perk... if you have a deviation bank you keep it long er than the current bid month, and they get more commercial tickets than before.
bidding - ups... you can see what everyone has bid real time up until bid closes.
fdx bid every month ups bid every two except for nov and dec.
domestic - fdx... more day flying, longer layovers, more double dh's / city purity ( going downhill fast), more variety of out and backs, no sdf-ont out and backs
.intl - ups md/74 guys have it better than fdx. ups has more 1 leg days, fdx is becoming an intl hub turn machine. 75/76 more like fdx md11 but relief pilots live in the cockpit like hobo's and get stepped on by the crew. All brown md's have bunks AND a row of 3 bulkhead seats. ANC lines suck for both! Many short, hard time trips that are not commuter friendly.
senority - ups pilot has moved up faster over the last couple yrs, fdx pilot has no room to complain though.
uniforms - tossup... ups uniforms are ugly but they give you more than you need or want, even luggage. fdx folks look more like textbook pilots but you get $150 per yr to spend. (still a good benny based on industry standards)
retirement - ups has double size b-fund half size a-fund compared to fdx.
medical - both pilots use ups, cheaper, better, and more flexible.
union - ups enjoys better unity, much better at cooperating during contract negotiations on things like not flying extra etc. IPA has definitely handled the age 60 fiasco more gracefully. FDX guys fly disputed pairings and screw over their fellow crewmembers. (sore subject)
domiciles - ...ups by a mile, take a critical look at mem and sdf and see for yourself. lax/ont=tossup anc=anc subic or mia = both foreign countries friendly to americans but big difference in cost.
(will be interesting to see how europe and asia shakes out)
training - ups is more of a train to proff atmosphere vs fdx fear and intimidation program.
pay - other than foodstamps for the first yr for ups it is almost a wash.
ups fo's are quickly catching up to fdx rates. Most ups folks seem to like the single payscale thing. fdx has better intl override, ups has better perdiem rates
one cavemans opinion...flame on
regarding other comparisions:
Commuting very good at Fedex, wish the dev bank could be used over a greater foot print, but with online protections and the quanity of Fedex flights, should be straight forward from most cities fedex flys to.
Bidding, not bad and getting better. Lots of options and technology (soon) to make things even better.
Dom flying
Intl flying, can't compare, but in past years UPS pilots I'd meet on the road compained/ compared trips and I thought we had it better. Regarding hotels and other "road" issues, we stay in better/same hotels as any other airline.
Seniority, hard to complain about seat movement at Fedex. But past preformance is no garuntee of future movement.
retirement, recent improvements makes us head and tails better than pax carriers (no surprise). Compared to UPS, I think you won't know which (could have been) better till you take your last breath.
Medical, no argument, ours blows.
Union, We don't have a billion brothers in other crafts unionized at FedEx. We stand alone. Enough said.
Domicles, see commuting.
training, disagree, I don't think Fedex trains by intimidation, I think you'll find most guys have had a good experience and if needed, received additional training without presure or feeling thier jobs were in jepordy.
pay, see APC comparisons.
Not mentioned, vacation; At Fedex we get a full days pay for each day of accrued vacation. we can slide it, expand it, we can even go over bank (to be reconciled at the end of the year). definitly one benefit that is better than most. Don't know how it compares to UPS.
06-06-2007, 09:28 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"At Fedex we get a full days pay for each day of accrued vacation. we can slide it, expand it..."
There will be none of that at UPS. You get paid 4 hours a day for unused vacation where a full day off of trip rig is 6.4. There is no sliding, wouldn't that be nice. All you can do is try to bid so your on days fall on vacation and get dropped. Unless you're in Z, you'd have to be pretty senior to effectively "cover" your two week vacation block. And, by the way, you can't split you're two week vacation slot into two one week periods. I have four weeks of vacation, but have to take it in three blocks, one of which has to be two weeks in a row.
Hope that makes sense. And I'm not complaining, either, but trying to help point out where it looks like Fedex has UPS beat.
There will be none of that at UPS. You get paid 4 hours a day for unused vacation where a full day off of trip rig is 6.4. There is no sliding, wouldn't that be nice. All you can do is try to bid so your on days fall on vacation and get dropped. Unless you're in Z, you'd have to be pretty senior to effectively "cover" your two week vacation block. And, by the way, you can't split you're two week vacation slot into two one week periods. I have four weeks of vacation, but have to take it in three blocks, one of which has to be two weeks in a row.
Hope that makes sense. And I'm not complaining, either, but trying to help point out where it looks like Fedex has UPS beat.
06-06-2007, 09:41 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: A Big One
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by wordfliesnverted
I'm just looking for a general idea of what is to be expected.
8 on 6 off? 13 days TAFB? One leg nights? 4 leg nights?
8 on 6 off? 13 days TAFB? One leg nights? 4 leg nights?
AM/PM Out and Backs 3 on 4 off/2on 2 off
AM/PM Out and Backs 4 on 3 off/2 on 2 off
7 days ON/OFF of Hub Turns (PM/AM)
14 day International trips
Special International Bid Awards (SIBA) to Paris for multiple bids (3 or so)
60+ hour layovers on weekends. (Get senior to hold weekends near home)
Several types of reserve to choose from:
RSV 24 hour callout - sit at home wait for the phone to ring.
A 0130-1330
A + 0730-1930
B 1330-0130
B - 1930-0730
Hotel Standby - AFW, OAK, IND and EWR.
Reserve shifts vary quite a bit but there are some that are chopped up into nice 7 days on/off. A few others that are 14 on/off. Then there are some that are just a blend of days on and off. You'll be on reserve 15 out of 28 or 19 out of 35 days. It depends on if you're bidding on a four or five week bid month.
Besides all of this, at FedEx we can drop/add/swap/move whatever we want. If you can't get home for a short weekend, PDO bump someone and fly the trip for the per diem only (PDO).
To answer your question is really all encompassing but I've done my best for you. I hope that helps.
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