Originally Posted by Swakid8

You have to remember something, Amazon isn’t and never was Atlas bread and butter. Atlas bread and butter has always been 747, triple 7, and Dod flying. Atlas will sacrifice the 737 and 767 flying in order to support the heavy international flying. That’s always a given. While ATI relies heavily on Amazon, Atlas never has and won’t because that’s not the money is at. Atlas knows this and FedEx knows this as well (hence why they pretty cut ties carrying Amazon stuff).

Originally Posted by Asci

Agreed.
They can still staff the 74 and 77 for now. And that being where the money is they can go on for a while longer. But I don’t know how long it will last. Sure there are some guys at the top who aren’t leaving. But when the big three and UPS and FedEx sign there next contracts I can’t imagine anyone with less than 10yrs of seniority or 10yrs left in their careers staying. And you can’t just toss joe blow into a 74 and cut them lose with the flying Atlas does.


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Originally Posted by Reactivity

Not that they took a pay cut, but rather that they could have done better given the state of the industry at the time. That mattered to ABX because it put an upper limit on what we would be able to achieve in our negotiations. And it did.

Originally Posted by Reactivity

It doesn't matter who else signed contracts where. If they weren't ATSG companies, ATSG management doesn't care. I can't find it now, but I remember a statement from what I think was an earnings conference call after the ATI CBA was ratified in 2018 in which management said something to the effect of, "We know how much it costs to staff an airline, and we see no reason to pay any more than that."

ABX has a growth problem and a union problem they always bash our contract but now the all mighty teamsters got them to match our pay. The Teamsters also rep Atlas see the correlation there. Thankfully ALPA is already negotiating a new one for us but don’t worry the salty strikers over at Atlas that keep losing planes to ATI and the ABX guys that have never flown a wrapped 300 will stay say we surrendered. Get over it you **** in your own bed by striking the customer not your employer off of advisement from truckers so be a good piggy and wallow in that poop!

Your bargaining won't be hampered by ABX. Your bargaining will be hampered by ATI in 2018. ABX tried for two years to get more. Every attempt was flatly refused. We were told that any agreement had to fit within the cost structure of ATI's agreement, "not one dollar more". ABX was losing people left and right to the big 5 at the time. Management didn't care. The president even said point blank that nobody should make ABX a career destination - come for a few years, but don't stay. In the end, our pay scale is exactly ATI's pay scale, right down to the total guaranteed hours per year, with 2% annual increases for the duration of the agreement. Why? Because it's what they would agree to - "not one dollar more".



ABX doesn't have a staffing problem. ABX doesn't have a performance problem. Let me give you a quote from the Q2 2019 earnings conference call when we were still more than a year from an agreement:



So it's not question of performance. It's because Amazon holds a grudge, and ATI is the beneficiary of that and the major miscalculation of the strike.



It's not a question of rolling over. It's a question of how long you're willing to beat your head against a brick wall to get something that's not being offered. If you're able to get more than 2% per year, that's great. ABX will be able to get that, too (in five years). But I'll be amazed if you're able to do it. I'm fairly certain there is a reason why ATI and ABX are pay matched at the same rates and 780 hours per year, and I don't see them giving up any more just because someone asked nicely. The "they'll need pilots" argument has been tried. It didn't work.

Originally Posted by Asci

I mean would you hold a grudge if someone created a website called “can amazon deliver” and then blamed them for your low pay. Or perhaps rented a billboard truck to drive around the amazon corporate office that said the same?

Originally Posted by Screwdriver6

Remind me, when’s the last time you got a plane from Amazon?

Originally Posted by dera

Spoken like every ABX pilot in October 2008.

Originally Posted by Reactivity

It certainly sets the starting point for negotiations, and with the "not one dollar more" approach of ATSG management, it sets a firm end point.



It did? I don't see it in there. If it is in there, then it makes clear why that's all they would agree to for ABX, and makes me even more certain that ATI is unlikely to do any better.

Anyway, good luck with your ongoing negotiations, coming up on six months past the amendable date. You're gonna need it.