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Old 06-16-2023 | 03:17 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by PilotX2
Why no rain it to 75? 67 seems arbitrary like postage stamp increases.
67 corresponds to the full Social Security rate in the next few years. You remember, it used to be 65. Not any more.
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Old 06-16-2023 | 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
Postage stamp increases aren't arbitrary; they're driven by costs, revenue, and market influences that impact revenue.

Age 67 isn't an arbitrary number that's been picked out of the ether. It's a small number; a small incremental increase. Certainly as the human body ages, we see diminishing or changing factors that involve joints, eyesight, breathing, circulation, etc. We see increasing instances of cancers, etc. Consider a sample of a set 65-67, and one of 65-75, and you'd see not only a total aggregate increase in health issues, but a statistically significant increase not just related to the number of pilots. You'd see fewer and fewer capable of passing a medical, working, or possibly willing to work.

67 is a small increment. It's not an ambitious increment. It's possible with an increase to 67, a drive to move to 68 or 69 might occur in the future, once a determination that 67 didn't have the negative impact that the sky-is-falling crowd believed. (Same thing occurred with age 60 to 65). Moving the age to 67 is a reasonable, conservative change in the regulation. There's no valid reason that age 67 should not be enacted as the retirement age, for now.
Raising to 67 is driven by costs, revenue, and market influences that impact revenue. USPS raises 2 cents when 10 would prevent having to raise prices sooner. But I guess you know what you are talking about, I have flown USPS routes too but I am just not that smart. Have you flown with anybody in their 70s? My guess is as you decline your ability to notice the decline of others is less noticeable. Save your pennies and retire at 65. Don't want to hear about your four ex wives in the cockpit when you turn 66.5 and don't know how you are going to pay for them.
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Old 06-17-2023 | 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by PilotX2
Why no rain it to 75? 67 seems arbitrary like postage stamp increases.
If it goes to 75 I just might come back for the love of flying and mentoring. I would take a job as a regional LCA for a few years. They need Captains and I would enjoy teaching. As long as said airline had separate lines in seniority order for LCA’s. I would last about 2 weeks on reserve before calling it quits.
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Old 06-17-2023 | 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TransWorld
67 corresponds to the full Social Security rate in the next few years. You remember, it used to be 65. Not any more.
Not really...it's past 67 now.
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Old 06-17-2023 | 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nitefr8dog
Not really...it's past 67 now.
No. For full benefits, this statement is incorrect. Per SSA, page 3 table.

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10035.pdf
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Old 06-17-2023 | 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
This is very much a matter of get-out-of-my-seat, old man, I-want-your-job.
This is very much a matter of boomers using their massive voting block to change laws that benefit themselves.
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Old 06-17-2023 | 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
Postage stamp increases aren't arbitrary; they're driven by costs, revenue, and market influences that impact revenue.

Age 67 isn't an arbitrary number that's been picked out of the ether. It's a small number; a small incremental increase. Certainly as the human body ages, we see diminishing or changing factors that involve joints, eyesight, breathing, circulation, etc. We see increasing instances of cancers, etc. Consider a sample of a set 65-67, and one of 65-75, and you'd see not only a total aggregate increase in health issues, but a statistically significant increase not just related to the number of pilots. You'd see fewer and fewer capable of passing a medical, working, or possibly willing to work.

67 is a small increment. It's not an ambitious increment. It's possible with an increase to 67, a drive to move to 68 or 69 might occur in the future, once a determination that 67 didn't have the negative impact that the sky-is-falling crowd believed. (Same thing occurred with age 60 to 65). Moving the age to 67 is a reasonable, conservative change in the regulation. There's no valid reason that age 67 should not be enacted as the retirement age, for now.
Obviously you’re coming up at the magic age of 65. I totally don’t see your argument to keep the experience in the cockpit. There’s plenty of young captains at my airline that can do as good of a job as I can our better. I am talking 25-45 year olds. I just turned 60 and can’t wait to retire! I would’ve done it already except I had almost 3 years off on medical. CL
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Old 06-19-2023 | 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TheEskimo
Obviously you’re coming up at the magic age of 65.
That's obvious to you, is it?

I am not.

Originally Posted by TheEskimo
I totally don’t see your argument to keep the experience in the cockpit.
I didn't make that argument. It's not found in what you quoted. Perhaps you're responding to someone else, but quoting me, because you're attributing to me that which I have not said.

The ability to stay in the cockpit is dependent on the individual's ability, as it always has, regardless of any age limit. This was true of age 60 and also of age 65. Simply because the regulation states that you must retire at 65 doesn't mean that you must remain until 65, or that you can..

Originally Posted by TheEskimo
I just turned 60 and can’t wait to retire!
​​​​​​​
Then do so. There is no gun to your head forcing you to stay in the cockpit. Not so many years ago, you've have been forced out of the cockpit by now, regardless of what you want, regardless of your capability, regardless of your condition, and regardless of your reading comprehension.

Age 65 limitations do not force you to remain in the cockpit. Age 65 limitations simply exclude you from the cockpit, regardless of what want, and regardless of what you are capable of doing.

Originally Posted by TheEskimo
I would’ve done it already except I had almost 3 years off on medical. CL
​​​​​​​
You'd have retired, you want to retire, can't wait to retired, but you're hanging in there (for whatever reason) until you're forced to retire? You see age 65 as a valid reason to be forced out why? Clearly you aren't against the age limit having been raised from 60 to 65.

If the age limit were raised to 67, nothing would force you to remain in the cockpit after 65. That's your choice. Presently when you reach 65, you don't have that choice.

What 24-45 year old pilots can do is irrelevant. They're not age 65. Or 67.
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Old 06-22-2023 | 07:46 PM
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Wouldn’t the bump to 67 need ICAO approval from Europe, Canada and the rest of world? I doubt wide body captains would want to demote themselves to domestic only narrow body flying when they turn 65.
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Old 06-23-2023 | 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Twincezzna
Wouldn’t the bump to 67 need ICAO approval from Europe, Canada and the rest of world? I doubt wide body captains would want to demote themselves to domestic only narrow body flying when they turn 65.
No, it would not need ICAO approval, congress does not report to ICAO. As you say, seniors would have to downgrade to domestic fleets, or airlines would have to accommodate their schedules to keep them domestic. Probably both, since even narrowbodies usually go to CA, MX, and the Americas. Easier to accommodate with narrowbodies.

So yes it would create a lot of churn, which is why legacies are opposed (that and LTD). Everybody who was about to upgrade to widebodies would still do it, but junior folks on narrowbodies wouldn't move up quite as fast for a couple years.

ICAO would probably follow along quickly though, since there's already some discussion in international circles anyway.
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