LOA predictions?
07-18-2007 | 03:11 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
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1. One of the most important phrases to emerge from discussion of the FDA matter is Dave Webb's: "The Negotiating Committee and MEC do not feel that there is a high likelihood that management will offer more financial incentives at this time."
This means, "We do not have the leverage to attain anything more." Please compare this with a statement I wrote some time back that "we operate at the benevolence of management." (More on unity in a few moments...)
2. ALPA has no credibility. Period. It is not a principle-based organization, hence, it has to buy all of its influence. Dave Webb told you about ALPA's credibility problem when he described the reason for ALPA's flip on Age 60. ALPA had raised the safety flag so many times for ridiculous reasons that everyone, including its political allies in Congress, told them that the jig was up. My impression was and is that Dave was totally in favor of continuing ALPA's discriminatory policies against pilots who turned 60. From what I have seen, the principle of the matter has meant nothing to him or to many other ALPA officials.
Let me say it clearly: While some of you may not be interested in what I say as a non-member, you do not count. The APAAD organization, of which I am a member of the advisory board, has cleaned ALPA's clock in Congress because of its credibility. It has had help from, among others, the FAA, AARP, ICAO, the Vietnam Veterans of America, and the Association's own incompetence. ALPA was told point blank that its opinions were being ignored on other issues because of its discriminatory position on Age 60.
ALPA is an overwhelmingly reactionary organization and its actions are motivated almost totally by outside forces and events. As a member of ALPA, I had little influence. Both ALPA national and local refused to publish articles that I wrote concerning some of the very issues that are killing the union today. For me, it is clear that I have far more influence as a non-member.
3. AlbieF15 wrote: "How did we get from so unified last year to this?" Such a question is the result of a lack of practical experience with the organization. To those who do have the experience, the answer is, of course, that there was no unity last year, only the illusion of it. Wishful thinking does not work in the long run.
One friend of mine with years of PSIT experience (he voted against the CBA) reviewed the proposed wording and told me at the time that our schedules were going to suffer as the result of the holes in the Agreement. If you have not seen the A-300 bid back for August, there is a surprise package in your future. Line purity is on its way out and day-night swaps are somehow becoming the rage. By the way, from my vantage point it does not appear that those who are currently younger than 53 are going to enjoy company-sponsored retiree healthcare coverage when the time comes. You are going to pay for the illusions that you are clinging to.
4. The leverage problems we are experiencing, including those with the FDA LOA, are the result of decades of leadership neglect at ALPA. Three points: First, the seniority system as we know it, wherein, pilots experience huge differentials in pay and working conditions based solely on when they came to work, is ruinous. You can have such differentials if you wish, or you can have unity, but, you cannot have both. The system breeds intra-profession competition, especially at FedEx where the lifestyle differential is vast across the spectrum of the pecking order. Virtually all of my "manifestos" and practical experience (especially during our strike at CAL) were about honoring the skill level of the so-called junior pilot.
Second, the LEC system of representation is grossly outdated. It can handle a few technical matters but it is completely incapable of developing strategy. It has to go.
Third, our confiscatory Agency Shop policy (as we currently know it) is fatal. It protects less-than-competent union officials in their positions, it precludes an "economic feedback loop" that would otherwise motivate product improvement, and, it masks the true level of solidarity within the organization. As a result, there is no doubt in my mind that FedEx management has a better grasp of the level of solidarity within ALPA than the pilots, themselves, have.
5. If ALPA is to be useful entity, it must appoint an outside board of directors with the necessary expertise to create a useful philosophical and economic strategy for the future. ALPA has simply has not cultivated the internal leadership to do the job. One thing desperately lacking within the organization is an "ethical framework of behavior." The perceived lack of fairness among pilots, both in terms of pay and working conditions, is our greatest deficiency, and it must be fixed if unity is to occur. John Prater has taken some small steps in this direction, and I hope it continues.
If you have not followed the USAir/America West arbitration matter, you are missing out on some great entertainment. It could precipitate a complete collapse of the union. Had any real attention been given in years past to the seniority-fairness issue, this dispute would not have occurred. As I told Dave Webb and the rest of the MEC during my presentation to them in 2005, FedEx pilots can lead the profession out of this mess but they have to dispense with traditional thinking in order to do it. So far, more of the same.
It appears now that nothing will change. Pilots have proven to be fearful of change and they seem to enjoy going like lambs to slaughter every chance they get. Not surprisingly, some contributors to this board are quite good at illuminating and dissecting the technical contractual deficiencies facing the crewforce. But, what is lacking is a strategy that will empower them to eliminate or reduce those deficiencies...and every day that goes by makes the situation worse.
Bob
07-18-2007 | 03:42 PM
#44
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,089
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From: "Part of the problem." : JL
07-18-2007 | 04:19 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,184
Likes: 0
From: leaning to the left
07-18-2007 | 04:24 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 967
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From: FDX A300 CPT
If you have not followed the USAir/America West arbitration matter, you are missing out on some great entertainment. It could precipitate a complete collapse of the union. Had any real attention been given in years past to the seniority-fairness issue, this dispute would not have occurred. As I told Dave Webb and the rest of the MEC during my presentation to them in 2005, FedEx pilots can lead the profession out of this mess but they have to dispense with traditional thinking in order to do it. So far, more of the same.
July 17, 2007
MEC Special Update
The America West and US Airways MECs met today in joint session today at the request of ALPA President John Prater. The Executive Council, ALPA attorneys, JNC Members and staff were also in attendance.
The meeting began with opening remarks from Captain Prater and an introduction from the Rice Committee formed by Executive Council resolution. This committee is comprised of Capt. Paul Rice, ALPA First-Vice President and United Airlines pilot, Captain Dave Webb, Federal Express MEC Chairman and Captain Ray Miller, Northwest Airlines MEC Vice Chairman and member of the Executive Council. This committee has clearly stated that their objective is not to tell either side what to do, but instead provide a perspective to the issues facing both our pilot groups and facilitate the development of options to bring the groups back together.
The committee led the discussions, outlining three potential bargaining solutions: A single joint contract, separate contracts and section 6 negotiations for the west. Over the course of the afternoon, they led the group by exploring pros and cons of each option. It was clear to the AWA MEC that either the Section 6 option or the separate ops/contract options had many challenges, not the least of which would be that the effect on the Nicolau Award would be similar to overturning the Award itself.
Regardless of which option was discussed, representatives of the East MEC have made it clear that there are no acceptable solutions absent vacating the seniority award. Several times they notified the entire group that they believe that their pilot group will engage in a process to decertify ALPA when the Executive Council rules to uphold the seniority arbitration.
Simultaneously, the West MEC did not participate in exploring these options but consistently offered their willingness to explore all ideas after the executive council rules on the east’s request to vacate the seniority award in order to achieve a mutually ratifiable joint collective bargaining agreement. Our MEC reviewed the importance of achieving a joint contract with significant economic improvements for all US Airways pilots and the Association as a whole.
While this meeting was an important step in bringing both pilot leaderships together for the first time since the award was announced, our MEC is committed to following ALPA’s Merger Policy and the AWA MEC repeatedly asked that the Executive Council respond to the AAA MEC’s request to overturn the Nicolau Award, and determine that the award is final and binding this week.
DW has more important things to do!
07-18-2007 | 04:44 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Gear Monkey
July 17, 2007
MEC Special Update
....This committee has clearly stated that their objective is not to tell either side what to do, but instead provide a perspective to the issues facing both our pilot groups and facilitate the development of options to bring the groups back together.....
MEC Special Update
....This committee has clearly stated that their objective is not to tell either side what to do, but instead provide a perspective to the issues facing both our pilot groups and facilitate the development of options to bring the groups back together.....
The company wants us flying in these FDAs (...JL told us that today!)...there is room to make this LOA fair, equitable and palatable to all.
But of course, we must take the first action and vote "NO".
07-18-2007 | 05:40 PM
#50
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 14
From: Tool-Box, old man
More:
1. One of the most important phrases to emerge from discussion of the FDA matter is Dave Webb's: "The Negotiating Committee and MEC do not feel that there is a high likelihood that management will offer more financial incentives at this time."
This means, "We do not have the leverage to attain anything more." Please compare this with a statement I wrote some time back that "we operate at the benevolence of management." (More on unity in a few moments...)
2. ALPA has no credibility. Period. It is not a principle-based organization, hence, it has to buy all of its influence. Dave Webb told you about ALPA's credibility problem when he described the reason for ALPA's flip on Age 60. ALPA had raised the safety flag so many times for ridiculous reasons that everyone, including its political allies in Congress, told them that the jig was up. My impression was and is that Dave was totally in favor of continuing ALPA's discriminatory policies against pilots who turned 60. From what I have seen, the principle of the matter has meant nothing to him or to many other ALPA officials.
Let me say it clearly: While some of you may not be interested in what I say as a non-member, you do not count. The APAAD organization, of which I am a member of the advisory board, has cleaned ALPA's clock in Congress because of its credibility. It has had help from, among others, the FAA, AARP, ICAO, the Vietnam Veterans of America, and the Association's own incompetence. ALPA was told point blank that its opinions were being ignored on other issues because of its discriminatory position on Age 60.
ALPA is an overwhelmingly reactionary organization and its actions are motivated almost totally by outside forces and events. As a member of ALPA, I had little influence. Both ALPA national and local refused to publish articles that I wrote concerning some of the very issues that are killing the union today. For me, it is clear that I have far more influence as a non-member.
3. AlbieF15 wrote: "How did we get from so unified last year to this?" Such a question is the result of a lack of practical experience with the organization. To those who do have the experience, the answer is, of course, that there was no unity last year, only the illusion of it. Wishful thinking does not work in the long run.
One friend of mine with years of PSIT experience (he voted against the CBA) reviewed the proposed wording and told me at the time that our schedules were going to suffer as the result of the holes in the Agreement. If you have not seen the A-300 bid back for August, there is a surprise package in your future. Line purity is on its way out and day-night swaps are somehow becoming the rage. By the way, from my vantage point it does not appear that those who are currently younger than 53 are going to enjoy company-sponsored retiree healthcare coverage when the time comes. You are going to pay for the illusions that you are clinging to.
4. The leverage problems we are experiencing, including those with the FDA LOA, are the result of decades of leadership neglect at ALPA. Three points: First, the seniority system as we know it, wherein, pilots experience huge differentials in pay and working conditions based solely on when they came to work, is ruinous. You can have such differentials if you wish, or you can have unity, but, you cannot have both. The system breeds intra-profession competition, especially at FedEx where the lifestyle differential is vast across the spectrum of the pecking order. Virtually all of my "manifestos" and practical experience (especially during our strike at CAL) were about honoring the skill level of the so-called junior pilot.
Second, the LEC system of representation is grossly outdated. It can handle a few technical matters but it is completely incapable of developing strategy. It has to go.
Third, our confiscatory Agency Shop policy (as we currently know it) is fatal. It protects less-than-competent union officials in their positions, it precludes an "economic feedback loop" that would otherwise motivate product improvement, and, it masks the true level of solidarity within the organization. As a result, there is no doubt in my mind that FedEx management has a better grasp of the level of solidarity within ALPA than the pilots, themselves, have.
5. If ALPA is to be useful entity, it must appoint an outside board of directors with the necessary expertise to create a useful philosophical and economic strategy for the future. ALPA has simply has not cultivated the internal leadership to do the job. One thing desperately lacking within the organization is an "ethical framework of behavior." The perceived lack of fairness among pilots, both in terms of pay and working conditions, is our greatest deficiency, and it must be fixed if unity is to occur. John Prater has taken some small steps in this direction, and I hope it continues.
If you have not followed the USAir/America West arbitration matter, you are missing out on some great entertainment. It could precipitate a complete collapse of the union. Had any real attention been given in years past to the seniority-fairness issue, this dispute would not have occurred. As I told Dave Webb and the rest of the MEC during my presentation to them in 2005, FedEx pilots can lead the profession out of this mess but they have to dispense with traditional thinking in order to do it. So far, more of the same.
It appears now that nothing will change. Pilots have proven to be fearful of change and they seem to enjoy going like lambs to slaughter every chance they get. Not surprisingly, some contributors to this board are quite good at illuminating and dissecting the technical contractual deficiencies facing the crewforce. But, what is lacking is a strategy that will empower them to eliminate or reduce those deficiencies...and every day that goes by makes the situation worse.
Bob
1. One of the most important phrases to emerge from discussion of the FDA matter is Dave Webb's: "The Negotiating Committee and MEC do not feel that there is a high likelihood that management will offer more financial incentives at this time."
This means, "We do not have the leverage to attain anything more." Please compare this with a statement I wrote some time back that "we operate at the benevolence of management." (More on unity in a few moments...)
2. ALPA has no credibility. Period. It is not a principle-based organization, hence, it has to buy all of its influence. Dave Webb told you about ALPA's credibility problem when he described the reason for ALPA's flip on Age 60. ALPA had raised the safety flag so many times for ridiculous reasons that everyone, including its political allies in Congress, told them that the jig was up. My impression was and is that Dave was totally in favor of continuing ALPA's discriminatory policies against pilots who turned 60. From what I have seen, the principle of the matter has meant nothing to him or to many other ALPA officials.
Let me say it clearly: While some of you may not be interested in what I say as a non-member, you do not count. The APAAD organization, of which I am a member of the advisory board, has cleaned ALPA's clock in Congress because of its credibility. It has had help from, among others, the FAA, AARP, ICAO, the Vietnam Veterans of America, and the Association's own incompetence. ALPA was told point blank that its opinions were being ignored on other issues because of its discriminatory position on Age 60.
ALPA is an overwhelmingly reactionary organization and its actions are motivated almost totally by outside forces and events. As a member of ALPA, I had little influence. Both ALPA national and local refused to publish articles that I wrote concerning some of the very issues that are killing the union today. For me, it is clear that I have far more influence as a non-member.
3. AlbieF15 wrote: "How did we get from so unified last year to this?" Such a question is the result of a lack of practical experience with the organization. To those who do have the experience, the answer is, of course, that there was no unity last year, only the illusion of it. Wishful thinking does not work in the long run.
One friend of mine with years of PSIT experience (he voted against the CBA) reviewed the proposed wording and told me at the time that our schedules were going to suffer as the result of the holes in the Agreement. If you have not seen the A-300 bid back for August, there is a surprise package in your future. Line purity is on its way out and day-night swaps are somehow becoming the rage. By the way, from my vantage point it does not appear that those who are currently younger than 53 are going to enjoy company-sponsored retiree healthcare coverage when the time comes. You are going to pay for the illusions that you are clinging to.
4. The leverage problems we are experiencing, including those with the FDA LOA, are the result of decades of leadership neglect at ALPA. Three points: First, the seniority system as we know it, wherein, pilots experience huge differentials in pay and working conditions based solely on when they came to work, is ruinous. You can have such differentials if you wish, or you can have unity, but, you cannot have both. The system breeds intra-profession competition, especially at FedEx where the lifestyle differential is vast across the spectrum of the pecking order. Virtually all of my "manifestos" and practical experience (especially during our strike at CAL) were about honoring the skill level of the so-called junior pilot.
Second, the LEC system of representation is grossly outdated. It can handle a few technical matters but it is completely incapable of developing strategy. It has to go.
Third, our confiscatory Agency Shop policy (as we currently know it) is fatal. It protects less-than-competent union officials in their positions, it precludes an "economic feedback loop" that would otherwise motivate product improvement, and, it masks the true level of solidarity within the organization. As a result, there is no doubt in my mind that FedEx management has a better grasp of the level of solidarity within ALPA than the pilots, themselves, have.
5. If ALPA is to be useful entity, it must appoint an outside board of directors with the necessary expertise to create a useful philosophical and economic strategy for the future. ALPA has simply has not cultivated the internal leadership to do the job. One thing desperately lacking within the organization is an "ethical framework of behavior." The perceived lack of fairness among pilots, both in terms of pay and working conditions, is our greatest deficiency, and it must be fixed if unity is to occur. John Prater has taken some small steps in this direction, and I hope it continues.
If you have not followed the USAir/America West arbitration matter, you are missing out on some great entertainment. It could precipitate a complete collapse of the union. Had any real attention been given in years past to the seniority-fairness issue, this dispute would not have occurred. As I told Dave Webb and the rest of the MEC during my presentation to them in 2005, FedEx pilots can lead the profession out of this mess but they have to dispense with traditional thinking in order to do it. So far, more of the same.
It appears now that nothing will change. Pilots have proven to be fearful of change and they seem to enjoy going like lambs to slaughter every chance they get. Not surprisingly, some contributors to this board are quite good at illuminating and dissecting the technical contractual deficiencies facing the crewforce. But, what is lacking is a strategy that will empower them to eliminate or reduce those deficiencies...and every day that goes by makes the situation worse.
Bob
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