LEC 99 Update
07-24-2007 | 04:03 PM
#52
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: A-300 Captain
I think the 'sacrifice' is the one we are making by living in HKG vice living in MEM or LA or anywhere else we want to live in the U.S. You know; english spoken here, Wal-Mart, Ryan's, etc...
07-24-2007 | 04:37 PM
#53
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From: Retired
You're kidding right.
English spoken in Memphis or LA? What sort of english would that be? I've spent a lot of time in Mecca-Red-Necka, and they don't speak english there. As for LA, ask anyone who lives there and they will tell you that you can't get by without being fluent in Spanish. As for Paris and Hong Kong not having any Wal-Marts, well, that is, without question, not a bad thing at all.
If you want to talk about sacrifices, then talk about the money ones, like no help on schooling, sub-standard housing allowance, medical care, etc, not to mention that the house or apartment you will be living in will be "sub-standard", relative to "our" normal expectations.
English spoken in Memphis or LA? What sort of english would that be? I've spent a lot of time in Mecca-Red-Necka, and they don't speak english there. As for LA, ask anyone who lives there and they will tell you that you can't get by without being fluent in Spanish. As for Paris and Hong Kong not having any Wal-Marts, well, that is, without question, not a bad thing at all. If you want to talk about sacrifices, then talk about the money ones, like no help on schooling, sub-standard housing allowance, medical care, etc, not to mention that the house or apartment you will be living in will be "sub-standard", relative to "our" normal expectations.
07-24-2007 | 04:51 PM
#54
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From: 767 FO
I believe what you are really refering to is for the intial Cadre of 757 Instructors/ Standards Check Airman, not the intial Cadre of average Line dawgs like you and me. MGT wants to fill the Instructor/Standards guys it feels are the most qualifed guys.........which would be A300 SIBA flyers, since that is what the 757 CDG will be doing. I suspect even the FAA might be involved in this to some degree. The Problem is these WB Capts don't want to downbid to NB CAPT. payrate.........that is unless they are pay protected. This is what needs to be agreed upon.........not that they don't have guys waiting to do it.
Last edited by FDXLAG; 07-24-2007 at 05:09 PM.
07-24-2007 | 05:53 PM
#56
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You are probably correct - "most wives" would not (mine included) - but some might?
Glad we're finally talking facts on here vs. hypotheticals though.
The apartment ad I linked was just one I found after about 5 minutes of surfing. Also, it is in the heart of downtown Paris - only a few blocks from the Champs d Elysees. The further out from the heart of the city you get, the less expensive the rent and the bigger the places.
This example was only intended to demonstrate how quickly/easily (if someone wanted to) EI's arguments could be debunked with a few clicks.
I'm not sayin'.....I'm just sayin'......
As for HKG - you can do the same thing here:
http://www.hongkonghomes.com/
This site even has a picture of an 'expat' family on the home page.
My point is only that one could argue (with information like this) that, contrary to what EI might have you believe, the LOA "Enhanced Option" might actually be "sufficient" for a short-term (2 year) commitment......isn't that the purpose of that option in the first place - short-term option?
Glad we're finally talking facts on here vs. hypotheticals though.
The apartment ad I linked was just one I found after about 5 minutes of surfing. Also, it is in the heart of downtown Paris - only a few blocks from the Champs d Elysees. The further out from the heart of the city you get, the less expensive the rent and the bigger the places.
This example was only intended to demonstrate how quickly/easily (if someone wanted to) EI's arguments could be debunked with a few clicks.
I'm not sayin'.....I'm just sayin'......
As for HKG - you can do the same thing here:
http://www.hongkonghomes.com/
This site even has a picture of an 'expat' family on the home page.
My point is only that one could argue (with information like this) that, contrary to what EI might have you believe, the LOA "Enhanced Option" might actually be "sufficient" for a short-term (2 year) commitment......isn't that the purpose of that option in the first place - short-term option?
What if I wanted to live in Hong Kong long term? What option do I choose? Should I go with the current CBA without a housing allowance or the "Enhanced Option" (can anyone tell me what's so "Enhanced"?) and stay in a 600 sq. ft. flat for more than 2 years? Hmmmmm... What would Brian Boitano do?
07-24-2007 | 06:01 PM
#57
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From: leaning to the left
SO what, you think most pilots considering the ASIA FDA would prefer to be based (and live) in Guangzhou over HKG?
I would assume the company prefers CAN over HKG. They won't hace to deal with GT and enrty/exit Visa issues every time the Bus leaves HKG for CAN.
I am not sure what you point is since you made it clear you are voting NO. With a NO vote comes NO TAX equalization and a far greater savings to FDX corp.
So your point again is???
I would assume the company prefers CAN over HKG. They won't hace to deal with GT and enrty/exit Visa issues every time the Bus leaves HKG for CAN.
I am not sure what you point is since you made it clear you are voting NO. With a NO vote comes NO TAX equalization and a far greater savings to FDX corp.
So your point again is???
I'll say this one more time...The NC is touting the line that they were able to negotiate(?) the HKG base vs. CAN, as if the company really gave in to them, on that one. What I'm trying to say(now read closely)is that the company will also benefit by this action with the savings from the"Tax equalization" plan. To the tune of $66,000+/-yr per captain. As well as actually getting a FedEx pilot to bid it. Like they say they want.
So, of course HKG is better than CAN!! I'm glad they decided to open the FDA there, instead. But, just because HKG is better than CAN, doesn't make the LOA a good package.
I think HKG vs CAN, is a win-win situation for us and the company. And that's good. I just don't want to hear that it was a big battle that we won.
07-24-2007 | 06:46 PM
#58
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Joined: Sep 2006
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From: ANC -11 FO
Regardless of whether you can live in a 600 sq ft apt in CDG, or what tax benefit the company ends up with, the most jaw-dropping part of the LEC 99 update to me was this gem:
I feel a certain level of frustration when the company puts information out in which they imply that the union was involved in all aspects of developing this proposal, as I am reasonably certain that no one from the union visited Paris or Hong Kong with company officials for the purpose of fact-finding. In my opinion, it is misleading to the pilot group when the company makes such statements.
I am also confused about some of the statements surfacing lately on how we ended up with the enhanced option. We ended up with this package because that is what the company offered and we took it. That’s it. I don’t recall the company starting any lower or the union countering any higher.
Is this true? YGBSM!! Our union leaders, elected to look out for the best interests of its members, didn't even bother to put forward a counteroffer? Didn't actually visit CDG or HKG with the company for fact finding? Yet they have the balls to tell us this is the best we could get, trust them, it's really a good deal for the group? Someone please tell me EI just made a typo or I'm reading this incorrectly. Is it possible a member of the MEC like EI just wasn't aware that these things did indeed happen and nobody from the union told him?
If this is really true, to me it's the biggest indictment of our MEC leaders yet. Wish I could vote no more than once.
I feel a certain level of frustration when the company puts information out in which they imply that the union was involved in all aspects of developing this proposal, as I am reasonably certain that no one from the union visited Paris or Hong Kong with company officials for the purpose of fact-finding. In my opinion, it is misleading to the pilot group when the company makes such statements.
I am also confused about some of the statements surfacing lately on how we ended up with the enhanced option. We ended up with this package because that is what the company offered and we took it. That’s it. I don’t recall the company starting any lower or the union countering any higher.
Is this true? YGBSM!! Our union leaders, elected to look out for the best interests of its members, didn't even bother to put forward a counteroffer? Didn't actually visit CDG or HKG with the company for fact finding? Yet they have the balls to tell us this is the best we could get, trust them, it's really a good deal for the group? Someone please tell me EI just made a typo or I'm reading this incorrectly. Is it possible a member of the MEC like EI just wasn't aware that these things did indeed happen and nobody from the union told him?
If this is really true, to me it's the biggest indictment of our MEC leaders yet. Wish I could vote no more than once.
07-24-2007 | 07:38 PM
#59
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It gives some money in lieu of previously negotiatied benefits. There's a big difference.
I want to bid Hong Kong. I doubt I will under this LOA. I just can't see going there without any of my stuff and having to lower my standard of living in order to help this company I love continue to make obscene amounts of money. I want them to make obscene sums of money. I just don't think any of us need to give up anything in the process.
Pilot groups of companies in bankruptcy make concessions. Pilot groups of astronomically profitable companies negotiate for gains. What on earth is wrong with us?
You are being a team player. Problem is, it's the wrong team.
07-24-2007 | 08:46 PM
#60
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: 767 Cap
Regardless of whether you can live in a 600 sq ft apt in CDG, or what tax benefit the company ends up with, the most jaw-dropping part of the LEC 99 update to me was this gem:
I feel a certain level of frustration when the company puts information out in which they imply that the union was involved in all aspects of developing this proposal, as I am reasonably certain that no one from the union visited Paris or Hong Kong with company officials for the purpose of fact-finding. In my opinion, it is misleading to the pilot group when the company makes such statements.
I am also confused about some of the statements surfacing lately on how we ended up with the enhanced option. We ended up with this package because that is what the company offered and we took it. That’s it. I don’t recall the company starting any lower or the union countering any higher.
Is this true? YGBSM!! Our union leaders, elected to look out for the best interests of its members, didn't even bother to put forward a counteroffer? Didn't actually visit CDG or HKG with the company for fact finding? Yet they have the balls to tell us this is the best we could get, trust them, it's really a good deal for the group? Someone please tell me EI just made a typo or I'm reading this incorrectly. Is it possible a member of the MEC like EI just wasn't aware that these things did indeed happen and nobody from the union told him?
If this is really true, to me it's the biggest indictment of our MEC leaders yet. Wish I could vote no more than once.
I feel a certain level of frustration when the company puts information out in which they imply that the union was involved in all aspects of developing this proposal, as I am reasonably certain that no one from the union visited Paris or Hong Kong with company officials for the purpose of fact-finding. In my opinion, it is misleading to the pilot group when the company makes such statements.
I am also confused about some of the statements surfacing lately on how we ended up with the enhanced option. We ended up with this package because that is what the company offered and we took it. That’s it. I don’t recall the company starting any lower or the union countering any higher.
Is this true? YGBSM!! Our union leaders, elected to look out for the best interests of its members, didn't even bother to put forward a counteroffer? Didn't actually visit CDG or HKG with the company for fact finding? Yet they have the balls to tell us this is the best we could get, trust them, it's really a good deal for the group? Someone please tell me EI just made a typo or I'm reading this incorrectly. Is it possible a member of the MEC like EI just wasn't aware that these things did indeed happen and nobody from the union told him?
If this is really true, to me it's the biggest indictment of our MEC leaders yet. Wish I could vote no more than once.
I'm pretty sure DW said at the Germantown roadshow that he had been to CAN and HKG.
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