Push to go to the 26th NOON meeting
07-27-2007, 05:14 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: unskilled laborer
Posts: 353
Originally Posted by BrownGirls YUM
It's a mistake for the company to not make commutable lines in HKG just for the sake of making them non-commutable.
I can understand their desire to keep the folks close at hand, but this is ridiculous. Half of Subic lines are flat-out commutable and a handful of others can be easily made to work for a good bit of time off, yet I don't even have to take off my shoes to count the number of true commuters in Subic.
Why? Take a look at the map. It's a TOUGH commute, but a very few hearty souls do it. So what? Has there been a trend of any significant trouble with this?
Now, something to consider is that people who are out in Asia, halfway around the world from their relatives and friends, want to get back from time to time. That's what vacation is for, you'll tell me. Sure, but wouldn't it be nice to spend a little more time back home after you've spent two days getting there? Commutable lines help that. Wouldn't it be nice to make a few weddings, football games, reunions, etc. without having to plan it out the previous year for vacation bidding?
My point is this, if they make the lines look so junky that you can't even get out of Asia unless you are on vacation, it's going to make the domicile look that much more unattractive (as if they needed a lot of help in that area).
Also, the more they cram the flying together, the less time folks will have to spend doing GT from HKG to CAN. The GT alone will be enough to scare away a lot of otherwise interested takers in this domicile. Minimize it, make the lines attractive and have a decent letter of agreement and they will come.
Keep tallying up the negatives and, well, there's always STV...
To paraphrase a real nice Captain.... "I'm trying really hard to see enough good in HKG to bid the thing as it stands now, but it just doesn't look like that's going to be possible".
I can understand their desire to keep the folks close at hand, but this is ridiculous. Half of Subic lines are flat-out commutable and a handful of others can be easily made to work for a good bit of time off, yet I don't even have to take off my shoes to count the number of true commuters in Subic.
Why? Take a look at the map. It's a TOUGH commute, but a very few hearty souls do it. So what? Has there been a trend of any significant trouble with this?
Now, something to consider is that people who are out in Asia, halfway around the world from their relatives and friends, want to get back from time to time. That's what vacation is for, you'll tell me. Sure, but wouldn't it be nice to spend a little more time back home after you've spent two days getting there? Commutable lines help that. Wouldn't it be nice to make a few weddings, football games, reunions, etc. without having to plan it out the previous year for vacation bidding?
My point is this, if they make the lines look so junky that you can't even get out of Asia unless you are on vacation, it's going to make the domicile look that much more unattractive (as if they needed a lot of help in that area).
Also, the more they cram the flying together, the less time folks will have to spend doing GT from HKG to CAN. The GT alone will be enough to scare away a lot of otherwise interested takers in this domicile. Minimize it, make the lines attractive and have a decent letter of agreement and they will come.
Keep tallying up the negatives and, well, there's always STV...
To paraphrase a real nice Captain.... "I'm trying really hard to see enough good in HKG to bid the thing as it stands now, but it just doesn't look like that's going to be possible".
Thumbs up for a very informative post. OF course, it is dependent on the RUMORS of what the lines may look like. People without special skills don't need to see what their schedule could be I suppose.
07-27-2007, 06:35 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by hfbpilot
Not at all!! that was how it seemed to me.
07-27-2007, 07:15 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by BrownGirls YUM
It's a mistake for the company to not make commutable lines in HKG just for the sake of making them non-commutable...
I believe the Foreign Income Exclusion requires you to be out of the US for 335 days over a 12 month period, and if that 12 month period does not align perfectly with the 'tax year' the exclusion is prorated.
Hmmmm....is HKG where the company stands to "make money" off the tax equalization?
Dem bean counters are a very, very smart group!
07-27-2007, 07:24 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
I think the 330 day number is still a test but it is only one test. Not many guys (read the company) will lose the exclusion due to this rule. Basically, you just have to establish that you are living in a Foreign Domicile and you stay there for a year (tax year does make it black and white). Visits to the US no longer hurt you (read the Company) as long as you don't reestablish residence. From the IRS:
13.3 Aliens and U.S. Citizens Living Abroad: Foreign Income & Foreign Income Exclusion
Do I have to meet the 330-day presence test or have a valid working resident visa to meet the requirement for foreign income exclusion?
To claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction, you must have foreign earned income, your tax home must be in a foreign country, and you must be one of the following:
A U.S. citizen who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year,
A U.S. resident alien who is a citizen or national of a country with which the United States has an income tax treaty with a nondiscrimination article in effect and who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year, or
A U.S. citizen or a U.S. resident alien who is physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months.
The 330 day rule would be a player if you were doing my 4 consecutive 90 day STV plan to cheat the company out of your exclusion.
13.3 Aliens and U.S. Citizens Living Abroad: Foreign Income & Foreign Income Exclusion
Do I have to meet the 330-day presence test or have a valid working resident visa to meet the requirement for foreign income exclusion?
To claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction, you must have foreign earned income, your tax home must be in a foreign country, and you must be one of the following:
A U.S. citizen who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year,
A U.S. resident alien who is a citizen or national of a country with which the United States has an income tax treaty with a nondiscrimination article in effect and who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year, or
A U.S. citizen or a U.S. resident alien who is physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months.
The 330 day rule would be a player if you were doing my 4 consecutive 90 day STV plan to cheat the company out of your exclusion.
Last edited by FDXLAG; 07-27-2007 at 07:30 AM.
07-27-2007, 08:02 AM
#25
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by BrownGirls YUM
Now, something to consider is that people who are out in Asia, halfway around the world from their relatives and friends, want to get back from time to time. That's what vacation is for, you'll tell me. Sure, but wouldn't it be nice to spend a little more time back home after you've spent two days getting there? Commutable lines help that. Wouldn't it be nice to make a few weddings, football games, reunions, etc. without having to plan it out the previous year for vacation bidding?
$82,400 exlusion for that pilot!
07-27-2007, 08:46 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
In some cases, but in most cases you can be a bona fide resident and visit the US plenty. Just have to have a residence over there and a visa and they have established your residence no matter how long you visit (practically).
07-27-2007, 08:58 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by SleepyF18
You asked if we would get paid to go over, I told you yes. You asked about leverage and the word change to the LOA re: inverse STV. I answered you and told you why and the background. If you didn't understand and I didn't hear your followup question, I'm sorry if I moved on. Feel free to call me to discuss it further.
Sorry Sleepy but this language leads me to believe that they may be trying to pull a fast one:
A pilot shall be entitled to one business class ticket positioning him to the STV location at the beginning of his assignment and back to his permanent base at the conclusion of his assignment.
This does not sound like Dead Head to me. It sounds more like move to FDA language. I hope you prove me wrong.
07-27-2007, 09:03 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: A300 CAP FDX
Posts: 287
Lag,
You are correct. There are two ways of qualifying: physical presence test (the 30 days in a moving 365), OR the bona fide resident test. The first test you can prove with your passport. The second test is subjective.
There is one good thing about this LOA. Since it is the "swiss cheese" LOA, many guys are individually looking up how these expat rules apply to us. In the process of understaing the rules, many (at least on this board) have educated themselves, trying to understand what kind of "industry standard" might exist . Good on you, and all the rest of you, for comparing a FDX pilot's overall package to the typical ex-pat at any other Brand X.
It becomes apparent, quite quicly, that FDX corp is lowballing us....AGAIN. You get the distinct impression that the bean counter is in his cubicle, saying to himself: those b@stards make enough $ as it is, they don't need this "standard" expat package. They (and JL) are WRONG! We DO have a unique marketable skill. We are worth the going rate, and deserve nothing less!
We must fix it now. We must vote it down.
NO.
You are correct. There are two ways of qualifying: physical presence test (the 30 days in a moving 365), OR the bona fide resident test. The first test you can prove with your passport. The second test is subjective.
There is one good thing about this LOA. Since it is the "swiss cheese" LOA, many guys are individually looking up how these expat rules apply to us. In the process of understaing the rules, many (at least on this board) have educated themselves, trying to understand what kind of "industry standard" might exist . Good on you, and all the rest of you, for comparing a FDX pilot's overall package to the typical ex-pat at any other Brand X.
It becomes apparent, quite quicly, that FDX corp is lowballing us....AGAIN. You get the distinct impression that the bean counter is in his cubicle, saying to himself: those b@stards make enough $ as it is, they don't need this "standard" expat package. They (and JL) are WRONG! We DO have a unique marketable skill. We are worth the going rate, and deserve nothing less!
We must fix it now. We must vote it down.
NO.
07-27-2007, 09:32 AM
#29
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: gear puller
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by dckozak
Point well taken. Its crap with the LOA. Can you imagine anyone going if the LOA's fails?? 
I wish some of our guy's who "fear the unknown" would give that a thought.
I wish some of our guy's who "fear the unknown" would give that a thought.I submit that the current CBA is better than this POS. That can be argued depending on personal preferences. I think we should "fear the unknown": i.e. the travel arrangements, whether travel is included in the 30 days, is it 30 days or 1 bid period, health care while STV'd, GT to and from (bus, train or combo) vs non- public commercial transpo to say the least.
I say vote it down and let the company see if they can fill it with the senior guys they want. I thought the company wanted to increase international pay during negotiations to get the more experienced guys to fly it. Now they throw $2700 at us and hope enough senior citizens will bite the cash and be blinded to all the other shortcomings of this LOA
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