Does anyone else not like training on days off?
08-23-2007, 09:58 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: MD11 F/O
Posts: 129
Does anyone else not like training on days off?
Speaking of CBA complaining. Has anyone else considered that the training section of the CBA represents a significant utility gain for the company? I thought this contract was supposed to have no concessions!! Perhaps this is part of the reason we are suddenly 250-300 pilots over manned. I know some guys like the new system, but if you just trained on r-days under the old system with some r-days left on either side of your training you would end up being available for significantly fewer days.
LAX MD-11 and Subic lost significantly more on this deal because their training events involved travel days. A shrewdly planned schedule under the old system could result in six credits per day plus some largely unusable substitution days left on either end of the training schedule. I heard it said that they would fix substitution but this is not what I had in mind.
For me personally I have found that the new system drives me to do training on days off. If this is the case for other people then the company is gaining significantly utility across the whole crew force. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have voted no on the CBA.
14 Days per month x 11 Months(one month for vacation) = 154 days/pilot
4800 pilots x 3 extra days because of new CBA / 154 days/pilot = 93.5 pilots
Oh yeah, what do you think of the company now demanding a medical note to use the disability account?
LAX MD-11 and Subic lost significantly more on this deal because their training events involved travel days. A shrewdly planned schedule under the old system could result in six credits per day plus some largely unusable substitution days left on either end of the training schedule. I heard it said that they would fix substitution but this is not what I had in mind.
For me personally I have found that the new system drives me to do training on days off. If this is the case for other people then the company is gaining significantly utility across the whole crew force. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have voted no on the CBA.
14 Days per month x 11 Months(one month for vacation) = 154 days/pilot
4800 pilots x 3 extra days because of new CBA / 154 days/pilot = 93.5 pilots
Oh yeah, what do you think of the company now demanding a medical note to use the disability account?
08-23-2007, 10:19 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by Jaxman187
Speaking of CBA complaining. Has anyone else considered that the training section of the CBA represents a significant utility gain for the company? I thought this contract was supposed to have no concessions!! Perhaps this is part of the reason we are suddenly 250-300 pilots over manned. I know some guys like the new system, but if you just trained on r-days under the old system with some r-days left on either side of your training you would end up being available for significantly fewer days.
LAX MD-11 and Subic lost significantly more on this deal because their training events involved travel days. A shrewdly planned schedule under the old system could result in six credits per day plus some largely unusable substitution days left on either end of the training schedule. I heard it said that they would fix substitution but this is not what I had in mind.
For me personally I have found that the new system drives me to do training on days off. If this is the case for other people then the company is gaining significantly utility across the whole crew force. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have voted no on the CBA.
14 Days per month x 11 Months(one month for vacation) = 154 days/pilot
4800 pilots x 3 extra days because of new CBA / 154 days/pilot = 93.5 pilots
Oh yeah, what do you think of the company now demanding a medical note to use the disability account?
LAX MD-11 and Subic lost significantly more on this deal because their training events involved travel days. A shrewdly planned schedule under the old system could result in six credits per day plus some largely unusable substitution days left on either end of the training schedule. I heard it said that they would fix substitution but this is not what I had in mind.
For me personally I have found that the new system drives me to do training on days off. If this is the case for other people then the company is gaining significantly utility across the whole crew force. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have voted no on the CBA.
14 Days per month x 11 Months(one month for vacation) = 154 days/pilot
4800 pilots x 3 extra days because of new CBA / 154 days/pilot = 93.5 pilots
Oh yeah, what do you think of the company now demanding a medical note to use the disability account?
I know what you mean buddy. Trust me I know. Last year I got an extra vacation paid for by the company. This year... Oh man.
08-24-2007, 09:27 AM
#4
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: 777 bound!
Posts: 242
I don't like the training sect. either in the new CBA. I only got paid for 48CH in Jun 07' cause of training. Now it forces you to do training on days off, which is what the co. has wanted to do all along...
Z
Z
08-24-2007, 12:59 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: FDX MD11 FO
Posts: 183
Agreed!
Good to see I wasn't the only one who thought this was a bad deal....kind of shock when you get that reduced paycheck after not training on a day off....even if you get the pay the following month.
However, the ability to conflict trng w/reserve, knock out a big block of r-days and put in for CIC has been pretty kind to me.
However, the ability to conflict trng w/reserve, knock out a big block of r-days and put in for CIC has been pretty kind to me.
08-24-2007, 07:03 PM
#9
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Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
I like the new system.
For 9 hours pay I can work on days off. Its my choice. I can also knock out trips--again my choice. What I HATED was having 2 months a year where somebody else decided what day during the month was out of my hands. Every March my kid's spring break plans were subject to someone else's inputs, and my anniversary in September was subjected to similar risk.
Also--even when I was 30% it seemed like I was getting my LAST choice of training dates.
So--I like the new system. I'll take control in my hands (commiserate with seniority) over hoping the "get lucky" with the training schedulers. They aren't bad folks--its just nobody else knows what I want like I do. That is the same reason I don't bid VTOs, and also why I was against the whole STV thing. After many years of not having a choice in the military, its nice to have a bit more control over your schedule.
And I freely admit that I'd rather have control over extra bucks. I don't know where that puts me on the pilot bell curve in our group, but anytime I get less control I am generally against an idea (PBS, STVs, etc), and anytime I get more I am generally for it (like this training part of the contract).
For 9 hours pay I can work on days off. Its my choice. I can also knock out trips--again my choice. What I HATED was having 2 months a year where somebody else decided what day during the month was out of my hands. Every March my kid's spring break plans were subject to someone else's inputs, and my anniversary in September was subjected to similar risk.
Also--even when I was 30% it seemed like I was getting my LAST choice of training dates.
So--I like the new system. I'll take control in my hands (commiserate with seniority) over hoping the "get lucky" with the training schedulers. They aren't bad folks--its just nobody else knows what I want like I do. That is the same reason I don't bid VTOs, and also why I was against the whole STV thing. After many years of not having a choice in the military, its nice to have a bit more control over your schedule.
And I freely admit that I'd rather have control over extra bucks. I don't know where that puts me on the pilot bell curve in our group, but anytime I get less control I am generally against an idea (PBS, STVs, etc), and anytime I get more I am generally for it (like this training part of the contract).
08-24-2007, 10:30 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 178
The new system works nice for some of you guys in MEM. Sucks for those in SFS that want time off. Under the old system didn't matter what training session you got. Bidding reserve and protecting min days off made you available for 4, yes 4 reserve days in a 4 week bid month. So what is a fella supposed to do now?
First class round trip ticket to the states, oh boy.
Option 1:
Deviate, go to Pattaya Beach, Thailand for 2 days, be a deviant. First Class to Miami (or some other US city), hang out. Jumpseat to Memphis for 3 days of training. Jumpseat to Miami (or some other US city), hang out. First Class ticket to Manila, once more be a deviant. Back to SFS just under the bank (hoping that you can recall what you did with all those receipts)
Option 2:
Do not deviate, layover in NRT and SEA on the way to MEM. Do 3 days of training. Layover in SEA and NRT on the way back. Go to Vascos, have a San Mig Light and watch the sunset.
Under the new system option 1 is still a viable option but you can forget all that hanging out in Miami (or some other US city) unless you want 18 hours of pay for that month. Can some one tell us in SFS how to get all the benefits of Option 1 and get full RLG under the new system?
First class round trip ticket to the states, oh boy.
Option 1:
Deviate, go to Pattaya Beach, Thailand for 2 days, be a deviant. First Class to Miami (or some other US city), hang out. Jumpseat to Memphis for 3 days of training. Jumpseat to Miami (or some other US city), hang out. First Class ticket to Manila, once more be a deviant. Back to SFS just under the bank (hoping that you can recall what you did with all those receipts)
Option 2:
Do not deviate, layover in NRT and SEA on the way to MEM. Do 3 days of training. Layover in SEA and NRT on the way back. Go to Vascos, have a San Mig Light and watch the sunset.
Under the new system option 1 is still a viable option but you can forget all that hanging out in Miami (or some other US city) unless you want 18 hours of pay for that month. Can some one tell us in SFS how to get all the benefits of Option 1 and get full RLG under the new system?
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