Airline Pilot Central Forums - 727 Disputed pairings

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There never was a threat of farming out the flying. Fred's position was with or without the LOA. It was our own leadership that threatened us with Irish pilots flying in Hong Kong (right before they told us we could still change our votes).

We had nothing to lose but $2700 (costs fred at most $1800) and tax equalization (which the company agreed was mandatory anyways).

Today's FCIF tells us to keep submitting question we need answers for. Why? They still haven't answered any questions on STVs. That will be a big part of my bid decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 244031)

Today's FCIF tells us to keep submitting question we need answers for. Why? They still haven't answered any questions on STVs. That will be a big part of my bid decision.

I have learned to read between lines when he writes.

He SAYS getting your name on the waiting list early (before the bid closes) gives you a better chance of getting your child into a school....and it costs money.

Meaning--JL is reiterating don't go to HKG with kids. It's expensive and you are already late getting your name on the list.

He wants more questions so he can fire off more warnings to those who want to make the FDA's work with a family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck (Post 243935)

Then you know something I don't. I've got both left seats bid. I wouldn't have voted for the LOA if I wasn't personally willing to accept the terms.

Now... how about laying off the ad hominem attacks. I used to just take my marbles and go home. But I'm not going to anymore. I've been on this forum as long as you, and alot longer than some others. I won't be called stupid, unread, or the equivalent of a DP flyer anymore. SUBIC BAY IS CLOSING. The best expat deal we ever saw or will ever see, brought to you courtesy of the SBMA and the Philippine government. Nothing remotely as good, monetarily, will ever be seen here again. So sad, I agree. And maybe a strategic mistake by Fred Smith. I honestly feel for all involved.

Here... let me help you get the focus off the stupidity of your fellow pilots and on to your brilliance: start by telling us all the mechanism we could have used to achieve a better deal than this LOA - after the MEC, the negotiating committee, and the company had all signed off on it. Rewind the clock, jump in front of the horde with a pitchfork and a torch and tell us how you would have got us something more. Because the way I see it, the vote wasn't "sitting down to negotiate over the sales contract," it was "walking into the closing" - either you sign the papers or you don't, but don't expect to start the process again.

You and I can agree on a lot of the mistakes that got us into that closing room, but the bottom line was - sign or don't sign, but there's one deal on the table.

Huck,

You are right about "attacks". I am too hasty to point a finger at the average widebody FO I have created in my mind. Especially since there is no such thing. My assumptions make an a$$ out me....and they serve no good purpose.

Good on you for putting in for one or both of the FDAs. In that case your vote was not wasted. If I could have voted and talked to you, I would have voted YES. But we would have had a long discussion about it first. For someone wanting to go I can see how you could vote Yes. Always have. I just haven't been able to find anyone who ended up on the Yes side who actually wanted to go. I recognize it was possible Fred Smith would not have offered us more to go. But the risk was so low I figured it was worth the gamble. I liked the odds.

Stupidity was not my enemy on this LOA. It was greed and fear. Greedy guys trying to get to MEM CA sooner and fear of no extra money for the FDA and foreign pilots. I could be wrong but I still believe folks voting Yes because they actully liked the LOA and wanted to go were a small minority.

For this we have created a B scale. The good part is a B scale often creates more pilot positions, so it's not all bad.

It was a tough call. And I am angry (again) at our MEC for putting us in this position. There is nothing to like about this deal. But I was going to bid it anyway and was about 99% sure that there was no more blood coming out of that turnip - not with our current leadership.

If Albie had been a rep (an idea that I support 110%) we might could have headed this thing off and got more. I have voted down a TA before at another carrier and gotten more money. But you got to have generals that will fight - the grunts can't run the war by themselves.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck (Post 244138)

- the grunts can't run the war by themselves.....

But they can bring the war to a screaching halt :eek:

I wouldn't have voted for the LOA if I wasn't personally willing to accept the terms.

Good for you huck....seriously. I hope it works out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluejuice (Post 244020)

I highly disagree Fred Smith is afraid of anything, nevermind being afraid of foreign labor laws. These are both small domiciles, with 76 pilots in CDG and and 90 in HKG, he could have made this work with monkeys.

And Albie, if there is one thing in my airline career that I have learned and will try to avoid at all costs, is "Suffer the "threat" of farming out the flying, blah blah blah". You know how the other carriers made out with that.

Fedex sells a brand name that is well recognized around the world. :cool:

When it comes to flying somewhere for vacation people choose the cheapest route - there is no loyalty to any particular airline! :eek:

I just took a look at the trips in open time. DP #11 already has a CA and FO assigned to the trips on the 10th & 16th. :eek:

With the trips being so far out, I doubt that they were assigned the trips off reserve.:confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDriver (Post 244265)

With the trips being so far out, I doubt that they were assigned the trips off reserve.:confused:

Look at the offenders' calendars if they aren't blocked! Easy to tell if assigned on resverve.

I did just that and I did not see any R day on the day/s of the trip for either crewmember.