Preferential Bidding
11-18-2007 | 08:10 PM
#23
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Row well and live...
I couldn't tell you what programs are being used since it's transparent to us line pilots, but since most pairing generation programs also have pbs program interfaces, it's not surprising. In the end though, what we the pilot see for VTO's really isn't like using a PBS system. If you've ever used one, you know what I mean. You would never enter something like 'east coast commuter line' into a PBS system. More importantly, in PBS you can assign both positive and negative scores to items in PBS that you cannot in our VTO system. For instance, you can say '500 pts avoid duty day longer than XXX' where XXX is determined by you. That gives a -500 point score to every duty period your duty day is above XXX. Desire would give an opposite effect. You the pilot determine the relative score of items in your bid vs. saying that the items on line 1 are equally important and more important than line 3, 4, etc by some value determined by the company vs. you. The overall function set in a typical PBS system is mind-boggling compared to our VTO setup.
I've seen some VTO systems that allow you to do something like this, just not ours which was the main gist of my point. I don't want a PBS system for regular or reserve lines, but would welcome them making more of the functions of the PBS systems available to us line pilots for VTO's. I hate not being able to appropriately score preferences.
Unfortunately, the push for PBS will have nothing to do with this because most pilots don't understand that PBS does absolutely nothing to change the pairings created by the company. PBS is usually sold to pilots as a schedule improvement tool and pilots tend to get the
idea in their heads that they can create their own better pairings which simply isn't true. Also, it doesn't do as much for the senior as they believe because the PBS build is a 'global build'. What this means is that PBS computer builds the whole bid award at one time instead of building line 1, 2, etc like most pilots think it does. This means that it often takes good pairings from senior pilots and gives them to junior pilots and vice-versa so that the entire award fits the parameters set by the company. It's an electronic version of what the SIG says when they talk about why they have to mix the lines the way they do sometimes. Bottom line, it works well for secondaries, sucks for regular lines, and really, really, really, sucks for reserve pilots.
I've seen some VTO systems that allow you to do something like this, just not ours which was the main gist of my point. I don't want a PBS system for regular or reserve lines, but would welcome them making more of the functions of the PBS systems available to us line pilots for VTO's. I hate not being able to appropriately score preferences.
Unfortunately, the push for PBS will have nothing to do with this because most pilots don't understand that PBS does absolutely nothing to change the pairings created by the company. PBS is usually sold to pilots as a schedule improvement tool and pilots tend to get the
idea in their heads that they can create their own better pairings which simply isn't true. Also, it doesn't do as much for the senior as they believe because the PBS build is a 'global build'. What this means is that PBS computer builds the whole bid award at one time instead of building line 1, 2, etc like most pilots think it does. This means that it often takes good pairings from senior pilots and gives them to junior pilots and vice-versa so that the entire award fits the parameters set by the company. It's an electronic version of what the SIG says when they talk about why they have to mix the lines the way they do sometimes. Bottom line, it works well for secondaries, sucks for regular lines, and really, really, really, sucks for reserve pilots.
Sad but true. I'm the idiot who got shacked with one of the disputed pairings this bid month. After years of flying lines, I suddenly found myself at the mercy--ahem--of the "secondary line scheduler". Kind of like: "Here's your disputed line there ace"...and your request really does not matter.
That didn't work out so well. The union was very helpful, but bottom line is I/we end up in the position of you can file a grievance, but fly the trip. But first fly the trip.
Gee, thanks. Meanwhile, chalk up a seriously negative opinion on the PBS concept. Or, as they said in a prior life....YGBFSTM!!!!!!!!
11-19-2007 | 05:13 AM
#24
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Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Gear Monkey
No way this things gonna pass
Really, Really, Relly sucks for reserve pilots (i.e. ...dem guys living the B-reserve 'high life' in Mempho)
If all true, no way this things gonna pass
Last edited by DLax85; 11-19-2007 at 05:14 AM. Reason: clarity
11-19-2007 | 05:47 AM
#25
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: MD-11 Captain
11-19-2007 | 07:09 AM
#26
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Joined: Feb 2006
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'Captain Davenport: They're pinging away with their active sonar like they're looking for something, but nobody's listening.
Jack Ryan: What do you mean?
Captain Davenport: Well, they're moving at almost forty knots. At that speed, they could run right over my daughter's stereo and not hear it.'
11-19-2007 | 08:24 AM
#27
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Joined: Sep 2006
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From: DC-10 S/O, forever.
Pbs
I spent three years on the SIG and believe me you DON'T want PBS. What Dan'l Larusso said is absolutely correct, the system will take senior pairings to build junior lines. There are no "senior" lines, nothing to look forward to as you make your way up the food chain, just a whole bunch of crappy lines that you don't even get a chance to preview before you submit your bid. No prior planning with your home life about scheduling days off--you may or may not get 'em. At least now you can avoid lines that absolutely don't work for you, it'll be a crap shoot if we get PBS.
PBS was one thing that Cheever stated publicly that he really wanted. It does everything for the company by saving money--no SIG anymore, at least not funded by the company, and nothing for us. It's certainly a way to get around our vacaton policy. You bid the first week off using 7 days of vacation and on day 8 you have a nice big trip.
As far as other pilot groups liking this, they all say they like it because they have control over the parameters for using it. If there's one thing I've learned in 20 years here it's that the company will NEVER give up control of scheduling (or anything else).
PBS was one thing that Cheever stated publicly that he really wanted. It does everything for the company by saving money--no SIG anymore, at least not funded by the company, and nothing for us. It's certainly a way to get around our vacaton policy. You bid the first week off using 7 days of vacation and on day 8 you have a nice big trip.
As far as other pilot groups liking this, they all say they like it because they have control over the parameters for using it. If there's one thing I've learned in 20 years here it's that the company will NEVER give up control of scheduling (or anything else).
11-19-2007 | 09:00 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 59
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Sad but true. I'm the idiot who got shacked with one of the disputed pairings this bid month. After years of flying lines, I suddenly found myself at the mercy--ahem--of the "secondary line scheduler". Kind of like: "Here's your disputed line there ace"...and your request really does not matter.
That didn't work out so well. The union was very helpful, but bottom line is I/we end up in the position of you can file a grievance, but fly the trip. But first fly the trip.
Gee, thanks. Meanwhile, chalk up a seriously negative opinion on the PBS concept. Or, as they said in a prior life....YGBFSTM!!!!!!!!
That didn't work out so well. The union was very helpful, but bottom line is I/we end up in the position of you can file a grievance, but fly the trip. But first fly the trip.
Gee, thanks. Meanwhile, chalk up a seriously negative opinion on the PBS concept. Or, as they said in a prior life....YGBFSTM!!!!!!!!
11-19-2007 | 09:07 AM
#29
...Whatever It Is!
Joined: Jul 2006
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11-19-2007 | 09:33 AM
#30
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: 767 FO
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