viperdriver

Since Subic is the only "excess" on the bid does that mean no one else will be displaced? If all over 60 guys say they want the Boeing is there anyway I would be forced off the Boeing (just an example).

When the DC-10 excess bid happens when they all bid off can that push others down and out of their seat, or in the posting will it mention an excess in your seat

In summary if I want to stay where I am at do I only need to be worried about being displaced if they specifically menition my seat in an excess bid?

frozenboxhauler

In summary, you're correct Viper.
fbh

Purpledriver

Standby...they will take another stab at you in the spring. Happy New Year.

a300fr8dog

Viper,
As far as I know, you don't get excessed unless they declare an excess for your seat.

DLax85

I too believe the company would have to declare an "excess" in your seat, before you could be forced to change to another seat.

Just had an interesting thought though....i

What if all the new hires go straight to the FDAs, and we remain fat in the right seat and back of the Boeing due to "Age 65-related" and "domestic growth" stagnation....where would the Boeing FOs and SOs go if the Boeing is excessed?

Any place where folks are junior to them, of course.

I guess that would mean FOs could bump SOs....but for the SOs, they'd have no where else to go but the FDAs.

Hopefully, the "you can't be forced to an FDA" clause applies in that case as well....and that is NOT something we should even consider removing in future contracts.

MX727

That's a key point. I detect from some postings that there is a fear that people will be forced out of their seat. That doesn't happen without an excess bid as a300fr8dog posted.

Now, the good news in the bid is that there are vacancies listed in every Captain seat. To me, that is clear indication that none of those seats are over manned.

Twiceskunkeddog

Disregard.... There's already another thread covering the point that I was trying to make.

Day Late and a Dollar Short.

DLax85

Wouldn't be the first time....won't be the last.

(...but, then again I still owe you $10 from lunch right? I haven't forgotten)

AFW_MD11

you are EXACTLY correct.

.....and since that is a CLEAR indication that none of those seats are over-manned......

.....it follows (logically) that there should not be an Excess bid later on down the road when all the Primary Vacancies on this posting are filled - because IF there truly are vacancies in these Captain seats (miraculously 21 MORE Widebody Captain vacancies than on the previous posting.....hmmmmm).......filling them should only properly man those seats (not OVER-man them).

Also.....the company has determined that there are vacancies with FULL KNOWLEDGE of the upcoming DC-10 Excess bid.

How could they possibly, then, say after the DC-10 Excess bid that those Captain seats are now OVER-manned? and perhaps institute, say another Excess bid for those Captain seats that they just filled due to vacancies (ie. need)

ESPECIALLY if they fill any widebody Captain slots via Secondary Vacancies (like they did on the last/cancelled bid).

"oops, sorry guys.....we had no way of knowing that the DC-10 Excess bid would allow all the DC-10 guys to bid the MD11/Airbus Captain seats......now those seats are OVER-manned by 21......expect to see a widebody Captain Excess posting out next week......economic factors.....age 65......how could we have known?"

Can you say lawsuit? Brought by all the junior widebody Captains Excessed off their seat because of this scam?

......UNLESS.....

ALPA, DW, and crew (as they said in their most recent email 'news flash') are actually scrutinizing the legalities of what the company is trying to pull here (which I doubt).

......protecting the seniority rights of EVERYONE on our seniority list......

Gunter

People who know me say I use the word conspiracy too much but...

I see no conspiracy other than the Company's conspiracy to maximize profit.

The excess bid SHOULD be before the vacancy bid but the incentive to put the vacancy bid first is too great.

1) It helps relieve the excess in the 727 SO seat with a minimum # of training events

2) It fills CA vacancies with minimal training and no creation of secondary training


I originally thought there was a conspiracy to keep the over 60 guys in the back. I now know that was not the case. If the situation reveals a cheaper option, the company will pursue it.

The excess bid after this bid will create overmanning as the original excess and vacancy were also filling openings due to retirements. But not excessive overmanning. Perhaps the company will even let the DC10 guys stay longer or do 2 smaller excess bids spaced apart. This would keep the overmanning on the DC10 fleet and not spread it around. Or they will just excess off the CA seats. Whatever is deemed cheaper.


Lawsuits? What? How?


BTW, good luck on seeing any secondary CA slots. I don't see it happening.