View Poll Results: Hire an outside professional negotiating firm to help negotiate our next contract?
Yes
118
82.52%
No
25
17.48%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll
FDX: Professional Negotiating Firm?? Poll
01-18-2008, 03:12 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: MD-11 Capt
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by Nitefrater
The problem is that we don't have $13.7 million per year to work with. That goes to ALPA national, who then decides how much goes back to the FDX MEC for our (their) purposes. Guess what... the FDX MEC budget for 2007 was some $4.2 million. So no, we don't have $5 or $6 million laying about to pay a professional negotiator. 
01-18-2008, 03:23 PM
#22
Administrator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: C-172
Posts: 8,024
You guys are funny; you bring me amusement every night. Thanks.
For the Doubting Thomases out there, why don’t you try to interview a professional negotiator and find out what he does, how he does it and how much he charges? You can present the research findings to your MEC. It stands to reason that if you have the evidence to back up your contention that you would like the services of a professional negotiator, the MEC is more likely to listen.
I have participated in negotiations (true, not airline ones, but they’re similar) before, as representative of one side. First of all, I did not find out what the other side wanted, then run over to my clients in the other room to get an answer and then run back to the first room. A good amount of work was done prior to the meetings with the other side. Long before setting the date of the first meeting, I met with my clients and know everything I needed to know, including what they wanted ideally, what they can “give away” and what are simply not negotiable. I also would have an idea what the other side might say and my clients will discuss whether they like them as is or if they needed adjustment. As their advocate, I am authorized to agree to some pre-determined items and when presented with something out of the scope, I am obligated to continue the meeting in order to consult with my clients.
So, I am not saying a professional negotiator is not useful, but certainly cannot hurt. As I understand it, you have not had one and look where you are now. Or perhaps I am just hearing from the disgruntled. I have to remember though that it was I who said working at FedEx is Kafkaesque.
Anyway, good luck! Does this poll have “binding precedent?”
Can I vote?
For the Doubting Thomases out there, why don’t you try to interview a professional negotiator and find out what he does, how he does it and how much he charges? You can present the research findings to your MEC. It stands to reason that if you have the evidence to back up your contention that you would like the services of a professional negotiator, the MEC is more likely to listen.
I have participated in negotiations (true, not airline ones, but they’re similar) before, as representative of one side. First of all, I did not find out what the other side wanted, then run over to my clients in the other room to get an answer and then run back to the first room. A good amount of work was done prior to the meetings with the other side. Long before setting the date of the first meeting, I met with my clients and know everything I needed to know, including what they wanted ideally, what they can “give away” and what are simply not negotiable. I also would have an idea what the other side might say and my clients will discuss whether they like them as is or if they needed adjustment. As their advocate, I am authorized to agree to some pre-determined items and when presented with something out of the scope, I am obligated to continue the meeting in order to consult with my clients.
So, I am not saying a professional negotiator is not useful, but certainly cannot hurt. As I understand it, you have not had one and look where you are now. Or perhaps I am just hearing from the disgruntled. I have to remember though that it was I who said working at FedEx is Kafkaesque.
Anyway, good luck! Does this poll have “binding precedent?”
Can I vote?
01-18-2008, 03:43 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
How about a professional educator to teach our pilots how substandard an offer is once it arrives? We didn't get that with the LOA and guys voted on something they didn't understand.
That is, after all, how poor agreements get ratified. Knowledge is power.
That is, after all, how poor agreements get ratified. Knowledge is power.
Last edited by Gunter; 01-18-2008 at 03:53 PM.
01-18-2008, 04:17 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B757/CA
Posts: 61
At the night Hub meeting last week, someone asked why we didn't have professionals on our negotiating team. The question wasn't answered until a hour later just before I left for my jumpseat. DW said we do have 3-4(?) lawyers on staff with one being a the top of her peer list for negotiating.
That doesn't mean we couldn't use more but we do have pros working with the contract committee.
That doesn't mean we couldn't use more but we do have pros working with the contract committee.
01-18-2008, 04:17 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
Originally Posted by dckozak
This thread would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that your (as in the collective) opinion does have an affect (on current and future) FDX ALPA leadership. Even more ominously, it is surely read (and no doubt, laughed at) by the very people we have to negotiate against. 
Our problem is not lack of (leadership) interest in improving our work conditions and pay; DW and all on the MEC stand to benefit, as do you, by better pay and improved sch/scope/etc. The problem isn't even lack of (proven) resolve by the membership. The problem is the inability to even get to a position to squeeze the company and make them see the benefit of agreeing to our terms. We might fail collectively to "pull the trigger" in a self help situation but unless the NMB will let us out of mediation, we are forced to sit and plead with the company to offer us better terms. ALPA is not the problem in negotiating nor was BC, the problem was political leadership in Washington that is unabashedly anti labor. We could have held out for more, and in all likelihood, would still be waiting for (any) improvements, or a pay raise, since the first contract.
If you think ALPA is the root of all our problems, go on ahead and delude yourself. Age 65, our contract, even our hated LOA, are all the result of the (national) political power we don't have and management does. Keep that in mind as you consider your vote 10 months from now.
Our problem is not lack of (leadership) interest in improving our work conditions and pay; DW and all on the MEC stand to benefit, as do you, by better pay and improved sch/scope/etc. The problem isn't even lack of (proven) resolve by the membership. The problem is the inability to even get to a position to squeeze the company and make them see the benefit of agreeing to our terms. We might fail collectively to "pull the trigger" in a self help situation but unless the NMB will let us out of mediation, we are forced to sit and plead with the company to offer us better terms. ALPA is not the problem in negotiating nor was BC, the problem was political leadership in Washington that is unabashedly anti labor. We could have held out for more, and in all likelihood, would still be waiting for (any) improvements, or a pay raise, since the first contract.
If you think ALPA is the root of all our problems, go on ahead and delude yourself. Age 65, our contract, even our hated LOA, are all the result of the (national) political power we don't have and management does. Keep that in mind as you consider your vote 10 months from now.
We could have held out on the 1st LOA, hoping for a better and not lost much if it did not go our way.
01-19-2008, 08:05 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Drinking from the fire hose
Posts: 305
Originally Posted by vagabond
For the Doubting Thomases out there, why don’t you try to interview a professional negotiator and find out what he does, how he does it and how much he charges? You can present the research findings to your MEC. It stands to reason that if you have the evidence to back up your contention that you would like the services of a professional negotiator, the MEC is more likely to listen.
I have participated in negotiations (true, not airline ones, but they’re similar) before, as representative of one side. First of all, I did not find out what the other side wanted, then run over to my clients in the other room to get an answer and then run back to the first room. A good amount of work was done prior to the meetings with the other side. Long before setting the date of the first meeting, I met with my clients and know everything I needed to know, including what they wanted ideally, what they can “give away” and what are simply not negotiable. I also would have an idea what the other side might say and my clients will discuss whether they like them as is or if they needed adjustment. As their advocate, I am authorized to agree to some pre-determined items and when presented with something out of the scope, I am obligated to continue the meeting in order to consult with my clients.
So, I am not saying a professional negotiator is not useful, but certainly cannot hurt. As I understand it, you have not had one and look where you are now. Or perhaps I am just hearing from the disgruntled. I have to remember though that it was I who said working at FedEx is Kafkaesque.
Anyway, good luck! Does this poll have “binding precedent?” Can I vote?
I have participated in negotiations (true, not airline ones, but they’re similar) before, as representative of one side. First of all, I did not find out what the other side wanted, then run over to my clients in the other room to get an answer and then run back to the first room. A good amount of work was done prior to the meetings with the other side. Long before setting the date of the first meeting, I met with my clients and know everything I needed to know, including what they wanted ideally, what they can “give away” and what are simply not negotiable. I also would have an idea what the other side might say and my clients will discuss whether they like them as is or if they needed adjustment. As their advocate, I am authorized to agree to some pre-determined items and when presented with something out of the scope, I am obligated to continue the meeting in order to consult with my clients.
So, I am not saying a professional negotiator is not useful, but certainly cannot hurt. As I understand it, you have not had one and look where you are now. Or perhaps I am just hearing from the disgruntled. I have to remember though that it was I who said working at FedEx is Kafkaesque.
Anyway, good luck! Does this poll have “binding precedent?”
Can I vote?I believe that "new blood" in the form of an outside firm may bring new strategies and ideas to our negotiating effort.
By the way, you can most certainly vote, however in this vote you don't have time left to change it.
Max sarcasm
01-19-2008, 08:06 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: moving target
Posts: 385
How many pilots can figger out the "whereas" and "towits"??? Hire an attorney that is EXPERIENCED in negotiations, and have our negotiating team there to explain to the attorney what we want, and the attorney can explain the "legaleese" to us. No brainer.
01-19-2008, 08:18 AM
#30
Administrator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: C-172
Posts: 8,024
Micro, I agree with you that a professional will do good by you. The union doesn't seem to think so and if you wanted to sway them your way, you could present them with your own research findings. You don't have to do it, but it would help. I was just trying to make helpful suggestions. Most everyone on this board knows my heart is in the right place.
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