FDXLAG

Well somebody has to pay for all those costing models ALPA National keeps in a closet. It might as well be us.

Busboy

"My NC speaks for me!" Talk is cheap! It's easy to put a friggin' sticker on your bag. Did you go to any picketing events(other than while hub-turning)? The participation was pitiful!



I guarantee you, to get those pre 9-11 contracts, it was different at UAL and DAL!

Actually, UAL's was in 2000. And, DAL's was in 2001. Not that long before we started our negotiations.

Yup, gotta point fingers at somebody. Might as well be the only group that was on their side. Management bankrupted them, the courts p!ssed on them, and Congress and the White House turned their backs to it. Yep, lets blame ALPA. ALPA hosed 'em. I'm not a psychologist, but I'm sure there is a recognized syndrome, for that kind of response. Seriously.

I've already said that I'm not against looking at an outside negotiator...I just don't want anyone to think that getting an outsider to negotiate for us, in itself, is the answer. It could just be another waste of money.

We need to get involved, take back our MEC, man up and show some measurable resolve next negotiations. Without that...it doesn't matter who's sitting on our side of the table.

FR8Hauler

I don't think anybody thinks having negotiators alone will make for a better contract. The point is why do we re-invent the wheel every four years with a bunch of pilots that know zilch about negotiating with a Fortune 100 company? Have our token guy, ie. FE and get a few cut-throat lawyers like the company has and get it done. Crew resolve would be there if half the guys don't feel like they are getting hosed on a bad deal. And the company would not be as able to pull fast ones on us with their legaleeze that they use.

fedupbusdriver

Busboy,

I agree that we are a collective group of independent agents at times. A little less so during negotiations.

The point of a professional negotiator is that we, as stupid pilots, get outsmarted at every turn at the table. What appears to us as being solid strengthening in work rules, ends up leaking more than a colander full of pasta sitting in your grandmother's kitchen sink. We need people who are trained to screw other people. I'm tired of bending over.

hschol

alpa does not negotiate the contract for us per se. We need to support whim ever negotiates our next contract. UAL, when they negotiate the contract of 2000 had a pilot negotiate it. He had a Masters in Labor Relations and was one heck of a negotiator. He also had a very unified pilot group. Goodwin the CEO was a bag of rocks. I beg to differ on the how unified the FedEx group was for the past negotiations. To have a necklace and a bunch of stickers say I support the Union is nice, but not picking up DP's is key. Action speaks the loudest. We are ALPA. A professional may do slightly better but we must be unified, no dp's and our leverage are the power levers. The World on Time does not happen without us!!! When it comes time for family awareness, spend the time at home. I would like to see a pro but he will need better support than stickers and necklaces...

H

Micro

OK!! I'll agree that it's not a total solution but I doubt that it would be a waste of money. Hopefully between some solid strategies, a supportive crewforce AND a vocal stance against those independents working against us we'll be able to get the job done correctly this time.

hschol

We need to talk about it. In the crashpads, over a beer, anywhere but the whole crew force need to be on board. Peer pressure.

AerisArmis

This is a personality driven argument. People are rightly upset with the heavyhanded and autocratic style of DW and BC. But I can't see how a team of hired negotiators would do any better. First off, they would not be able to cut any deals on their own and would have to run everything through the prez and MEC, just like now. Who would tell them what company proposal was a bad idea and what was good....us. They would still need pilot experts in scheduling, safety, retirement, health care and all the other things important to us. What we need is a union president and MEC and NC chairman who listen and care what the crew force think. Had we had that the last few years, this discussion would be moot. The resources are there, we just need the right people. (BTW...I don't think DM has the grit required to replace DW when he finally goes....but there are a lot of good, smart guys who can replace him.....unless,of course, we want a "professional" union president too?)

SC-7

This:

I agree with. This:

is kind of like saying a good divorce lawyer isn't worth the money because he has to run everything through you first.

dckozak

This thread would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that your (as in the collective) opinion does have an affect (on current and future) FDX ALPA leadership. Even more ominously, it is surely read (and no doubt, laughed at) by the very people we have to negotiate against.

Our problem is not lack of (leadership) interest in improving our work conditions and pay; DW and all on the MEC stand to benefit, as do you, by better pay and improved sch/scope/etc. The problem isn't even lack of (proven) resolve by the membership. The problem is the inability to even get to a position to squeeze the company and make them see the benefit of agreeing to our terms. We might fail collectively to "pull the trigger" in a self help situation but unless the NMB will let us out of mediation, we are forced to sit and plead with the company to offer us better terms. ALPA is not the problem in negotiating nor was BC, the problem was political leadership in Washington that is unabashedly anti labor. We could have held out for more, and in all likelihood, would still be waiting for (any) improvements, or a pay raise, since the first contract.

If you think ALPA is the root of all our problems, go on ahead and delude yourself. Age 65, our contract, even our hated LOA, are all the result of the (national) political power we don't have and management does. Keep that in mind as you consider your vote 10 months from now.