A few random questions and points...
09-13-2008 | 04:21 AM
#51
Retired
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From: whale wrangler
I think thats the wrong passover lol
09-13-2008 | 05:13 AM
#52
Trust but Verify!!
Joined: May 2006
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From: MD11 CRA
" I believe that most older guys will want to stay where they are, rather than incurring another training cycle, especially on a new piece of equipment, one where they will actually have to learn their stuff."
Just think how much better off this crew force as a whole would be if what you are saying would have been true a few months ago. Based on the history of this particular group it seems obvious that they will do whatever benefits them more regardless of who else pays the price for their gain. Selfish is as selfish does as Billy Budd would say. The real question is how many more training dollars is this company willing to waste on part time employees with less than a 5 year return for their training? My hope is none..
Just think how much better off this crew force as a whole would be if what you are saying would have been true a few months ago. Based on the history of this particular group it seems obvious that they will do whatever benefits them more regardless of who else pays the price for their gain. Selfish is as selfish does as Billy Budd would say. The real question is how many more training dollars is this company willing to waste on part time employees with less than a 5 year return for their training? My hope is none..
09-13-2008 | 07:51 AM
#53
Living the dream!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 915
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From: MD-11 Capt
Unfortunately, seems to usually be A) too fast and departs surface or B) other cars hit them at intersection. My next door neighbor has a rice rocket and a BMW, and he regularly rides in the Smokies. He's pretty hard core, but says the most dangerous riding is on the beach here where folks and sightseeing and not paying attention...
Sorry for the thread creep...
Sorry for the thread creep...
Not really the crowd I run with... I do pass them a lot...
You are a great American, keep up the good work. You need to have another breakfast gathering when you are in town. I know BoyCaptain and I'd attend.
09-13-2008 | 08:10 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Retired
" I believe that most older guys will want to stay where they are, rather than incurring another training cycle, especially on a new piece of equipment, one where they will actually have to learn their stuff."
Just think how much better off this crew force as a whole would be if what you are saying would have been true a few months ago. Based on the history of this particular group it seems obvious that they will do whatever benefits them more regardless of who else pays the price for their gain. Selfish is as selfish does as Billy Budd would say. The real question is how many more training dollars is this company willing to waste on part time employees with less than a 5 year return for their training? My hope is none..
Just think how much better off this crew force as a whole would be if what you are saying would have been true a few months ago. Based on the history of this particular group it seems obvious that they will do whatever benefits them more regardless of who else pays the price for their gain. Selfish is as selfish does as Billy Budd would say. The real question is how many more training dollars is this company willing to waste on part time employees with less than a 5 year return for their training? My hope is none..
09-13-2008 | 08:26 AM
#55
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They will do whatever is best for themselves, within the seniority system, and no one else pays a price for their gain, as their seniority entitles them to hold whatever they can, just like yours does. The cost to the company should not be a concern to you, unless of course you expect them to pass along any savings they may gain, to you. Since that's not happened in the past, I don't expect it will happen in the future, and furthermore, if it was not profitable for the company to put these guys in these seats, than they wouldn't. Apparently the company has figured out that they can still recoup their investment (in training) for someone with even less than 2 years to go, after training, so your concern about "a 5 year return" seems rather conservative, as well as wishful thinking on your part.
Many of these guys profited from the "over 60 vacancy bid". At least 50 guys on the Boeing. Very good deal for them as their were no actual vacancies available. Not just what they could hold, but more. The evidence was the MOAEB shortly after the DC10/over 60 excess bid.
Why? For the reason you state. Management figured it was cheaper to give these guys a reason to stay on the payroll vs. paying them a retirement check. Working for half pay will pay for the training costs in short order.
09-13-2008 | 10:25 AM
#56
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From: Retired
Gunter,
As you well know, the bid you refer to was actually an excess bid. The company, for whatever reason, decided to hold it, and not only over 60 guys, but some under 60 types as well, bid, according to the contract. The fact that they got "more", was built into our negotiated contract. If the company did that so that they could get more work, for half pay, from these guys, than perhaps you should be having this discussion with the company. Guys did what they were allowed, under the contract, to do. Nothing more and nothing less.
As you well know, the bid you refer to was actually an excess bid. The company, for whatever reason, decided to hold it, and not only over 60 guys, but some under 60 types as well, bid, according to the contract. The fact that they got "more", was built into our negotiated contract. If the company did that so that they could get more work, for half pay, from these guys, than perhaps you should be having this discussion with the company. Guys did what they were allowed, under the contract, to do. Nothing more and nothing less.
09-13-2008 | 12:55 PM
#58
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But what do you call it when you take out 50 pilots via an excess bid then try to push 100 into the same seat in another excess bid shortly thereafter? Poor planning or execution of a larger plan? Things aren't always what they seem to be. I think they had to have the small excess bid first because someone knew the MOAEB was going to be problematic.
Call it what you want, it was an over 60 vacancy bid. Not blaming the over 60 guys for anything. Just taking note of what actually happened.
As TonyC says, "The truth only hurts if it should"
Flame Bait
Dude...
