Did UPS screw up?
12-07-2008, 04:40 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 157
Did UPS screw up?
Reading the ANC meeting notes really breaks my heart. Going from adding 35 airframes had DHL gone through to the talk of furloughs today really has me upset. Now my sorrow is turning toward frustration toward those that brought this upon us. (Sorry ABX/Astar - I know you're in worse shape than any UPS pilot, but I'm a little narcissistic. Gotta watch out for #1) I think the Ohio elected officials only did what they are paid to do - watch out for their voters. We all know now in the long run it only hurt the economy more (net loss of 35,000 jobs instead of 8,000). Which leads me to conclude - DID THE ALL-MIGHTY UPS ACTUALLY SCREW UP THIS DEAL?
I think the May 28 announcement was premature and gave those forces opposing the deal plenty of time to make their case, and stop the deal, which they effectively did. Plus big brown's announcement stating "DHL has no other alternative" leads me to believe my employer was getting a little too big for it's own britches during negotiations. In the end, Wilmington will still close. Astar/ABX will be no better off and an additional 27,000 DHL workers will now be out of work.
Remember, this does not just affect the junior UPS pilot. The top 300 FO's just saw their captain bid evaporate. Junior seniority captains and FO's saw the opportunity for better schedules dissolve. Pool swimmers saw the opportunity to work for brown get pushed back another 12, 18, 24+ months. And yes - the botton 200 who are sweating a furlough would be sleeping soundly at night with another 300 below them. (Disclaimer - I am one of those who truly believe UPS will NOT furlough.)
I really have to say, all in all, UPS has made some pretty smart moves in it's 101 year history. But this one will go down in the history books as a big, huge blunder. As a lowly line pilot, I think UPS should not have announced the deal until the ink was dry on the contract. Maybe it wouldn't have helped. We'll never know.
Way to go ATL!
Rott
I think the May 28 announcement was premature and gave those forces opposing the deal plenty of time to make their case, and stop the deal, which they effectively did. Plus big brown's announcement stating "DHL has no other alternative" leads me to believe my employer was getting a little too big for it's own britches during negotiations. In the end, Wilmington will still close. Astar/ABX will be no better off and an additional 27,000 DHL workers will now be out of work.
Remember, this does not just affect the junior UPS pilot. The top 300 FO's just saw their captain bid evaporate. Junior seniority captains and FO's saw the opportunity for better schedules dissolve. Pool swimmers saw the opportunity to work for brown get pushed back another 12, 18, 24+ months. And yes - the botton 200 who are sweating a furlough would be sleeping soundly at night with another 300 below them. (Disclaimer - I am one of those who truly believe UPS will NOT furlough.)
I really have to say, all in all, UPS has made some pretty smart moves in it's 101 year history. But this one will go down in the history books as a big, huge blunder. As a lowly line pilot, I think UPS should not have announced the deal until the ink was dry on the contract. Maybe it wouldn't have helped. We'll never know.
Way to go ATL!
Rott
Last edited by Rottweiler; 12-07-2008 at 05:30 PM.
12-07-2008, 05:36 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 424
You are missing the big picture. After the dust settles, we lose a key player that has competed with lower prices. Both UPS and Fedex are desparately looking to pick up additional business which wasn't available until recently. UPS will probably pick up about half of the business that DHL left behind. Delivery prices will go up. In the long run, things will be better off than the original agreement UPS made with DHL.
Blaming the Ohio legislators, UPS, DHL, and others, will not bring the agreement back. I am not sure why you want to dwell on it.
And, you are right, there are hundreds of our fellow pilots out of work. They have it much worse than us and the job market is absolutely terrible now. Furlough rumors at UPS and Fedex are just that, rumors.
Blaming the Ohio legislators, UPS, DHL, and others, will not bring the agreement back. I am not sure why you want to dwell on it.
And, you are right, there are hundreds of our fellow pilots out of work. They have it much worse than us and the job market is absolutely terrible now. Furlough rumors at UPS and Fedex are just that, rumors.
12-07-2008, 05:46 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Rottweiler
Reading the ANC meeting notes really breaks my heart. Going from adding 35 airframes had DHL gone through to the talk of furloughs today really has me upset. Now my sorrow is turning toward frustration toward those that brought this upon us. (Sorry ABX/Astar - I know you're in worse shape than any UPS pilot, but I'm a little narcissistic. Gotta watch out for #1) I think the Ohio elected officials only did what they are paid to do - watch out for their voters. We all know now in the long run it only hurt the economy more (net loss of 35,000 jobs instead of 8,000). Which leads me to conclude - DID THE ALL-MIGHTY UPS ACTUALLY SCREW UP THIS DEAL?
I think the May 28 announcement was premature and gave those forces opposing the deal plenty of time to make their case, and stop the deal, which they effectively did. Plus big brown's announcement stating "DHL has no other alternative" leads me to believe my employer was getting a little too big for it's own britches during negotiations. In the end, Wilmington will still close. Astar/ABX will be no better off and an additional 27,000 DHL workers will now be out of work.
Remember, this does not just affect the junior UPS pilot. The top 300 FO's just saw their captain bid evaporate. Junior seniority captains and FO's saw the opportunity for better schedules dissolve. Pool swimmers saw the opportunity to work for brown get pushed back another 12, 18, 24+ months. And yes - the botton 200 who are sweating a furlough would be sleeping soundly at night with another 300 below them. (Disclaimer - I am one of those who truly believe UPS will NOT furlough.)
I really have to say, all in all, UPS has made some pretty smart moves in it's 101 year history. But this one will go down in the history books as a big, huge blunder. As a lowly line pilot, I think UPS should not have announced the deal until the ink was dry on the contract. Maybe it wouldn't have helped. We'll never know.
Way to go ATL!
Rott
I think the May 28 announcement was premature and gave those forces opposing the deal plenty of time to make their case, and stop the deal, which they effectively did. Plus big brown's announcement stating "DHL has no other alternative" leads me to believe my employer was getting a little too big for it's own britches during negotiations. In the end, Wilmington will still close. Astar/ABX will be no better off and an additional 27,000 DHL workers will now be out of work.
Remember, this does not just affect the junior UPS pilot. The top 300 FO's just saw their captain bid evaporate. Junior seniority captains and FO's saw the opportunity for better schedules dissolve. Pool swimmers saw the opportunity to work for brown get pushed back another 12, 18, 24+ months. And yes - the botton 200 who are sweating a furlough would be sleeping soundly at night with another 300 below them. (Disclaimer - I am one of those who truly believe UPS will NOT furlough.)
I really have to say, all in all, UPS has made some pretty smart moves in it's 101 year history. But this one will go down in the history books as a big, huge blunder. As a lowly line pilot, I think UPS should not have announced the deal until the ink was dry on the contract. Maybe it wouldn't have helped. We'll never know.
Way to go ATL!
Rott
12-07-2008, 05:59 PM
#4
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Posts: 2,696
Originally Posted by Rottweiler
I think the May 28 announcement was premature and gave those forces opposing the deal plenty of time to make their case, and stop the deal, which they effectively did.
12-07-2008, 09:13 PM
#5
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Posts: 174
Don't forget the best part: FedEx is also negotiating with DHL now for the new deal.
12-07-2008, 09:32 PM
#6
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Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by FR8K9
Don't forget the best part: FedEx is also negotiating with DHL now for the new deal.
12-07-2008, 09:44 PM
#7
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Posts: 174
Won't that be somethin when FedEx and DHL announce a deal within the next week or so?
I wonder if those two (DHL/FedEx) had planned this the whole time?
Let UPS take all the heat, spend all the money lobbying congress, spend all the time and get distracted for close to a year, and in the end UPS gets squeezed out anyway.
Some FedEx types already think the FedEx/DHL deal is inked and will be announced any day now.
I wonder if those two (DHL/FedEx) had planned this the whole time?
Let UPS take all the heat, spend all the money lobbying congress, spend all the time and get distracted for close to a year, and in the end UPS gets squeezed out anyway.
Some FedEx types already think the FedEx/DHL deal is inked and will be announced any day now.
12-07-2008, 10:01 PM
#8
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Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by FR8K9
Won't that be somethin when FedEx and DHL announce a deal within the next week or so?
I wonder if those two (DHL/FedEx) had planned this the whole time?
Let UPS take all the heat, spend all the money lobbying congress, spend all the time and get distracted for close to a year, and in the end UPS gets squeezed out anyway.
Some FedEx types already think the FedEx/DHL deal is inked and will be announced any day now.
I wonder if those two (DHL/FedEx) had planned this the whole time?
Let UPS take all the heat, spend all the money lobbying congress, spend all the time and get distracted for close to a year, and in the end UPS gets squeezed out anyway.
Some FedEx types already think the FedEx/DHL deal is inked and will be announced any day now.
12-07-2008, 10:24 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Try to keep your eye on the ball. When DHL started pulling out, the free market was on their US domestic market share like a flock of vultures.
The only thing they have left to bargain over is who gets to control the entrance and exit of their international flow through the US.
That is what any deal will be about, they can't control the domestic US market.
The politicos were never players, just noise makers. To their credit, they did sing on cue, just as they were paid to do.
The only thing they have left to bargain over is who gets to control the entrance and exit of their international flow through the US.
That is what any deal will be about, they can't control the domestic US market.
The politicos were never players, just noise makers. To their credit, they did sing on cue, just as they were paid to do.
Last edited by jungle; 12-07-2008 at 11:55 PM.
12-07-2008, 10:42 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: MD-11 CA
Posts: 174
To answer the question, Did UPS screw up?
Well, a few months ago they had a $10 billion dollar contract, and today they don't. I'd say someone screwed up!
I wonder who is responsible to UPS for losing $10 billion?
Well, a few months ago they had a $10 billion dollar contract, and today they don't. I'd say someone screwed up!
I wonder who is responsible to UPS for losing $10 billion?
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