MD10PLT, You're kind of pi**ing me off. Where do you get off saying the top 40% of the seniority list wants a furlough? Just because a couple of senior guys in ANC make that noise? 40% of 4,000 pilots is 1,600. Do you really think more than a handful would really want that to happen. You serve no purpose in trying to singlehandedly divide the top and bottom half of the seniority list. If there was ever a time to stick together, it would be now. Try not to be a divider. It doesn't help.

MG2 (3%)

Oakland, but I carried as much as I could home. I love it!

Well, S. I hope you are wrong.

I don't know most of them, but there are one or two that I really respect and trust. For the one or two I know, I've always considered myself lucky they were the guys working for the company right now. But, like I said I only know one or two.

Mac I hope you're right because as a big union supporter I see the next year as a make or break moment for the union. As far as 1,600 guys advocating for a furlough I don't think that number is far off. I don't really think they are hoping for a furlough as much as they are willing to give up a junior guy to keep their pay. Call your union rep and ask him what kind of calls he's getting. And like I said, these guys are standing up at union meetings and saying the junior guys need to go, to be willing to say this openly speaks volumes. From my perspective, I have not flown with a Capt in the last year who did not advocate for a furlough. Their reasoning is; "that's just the way it is in this business".

BTW for you capt's out there, please stop saying this kind of stuff in the cockpit, it really doesn't help CRM.

[QUOTE=MD10PLT;547131]Mac I hope you're right because as a big union supporter I see the next year as a make or break moment for the union. As far as 1,600 guys advocating for a furlough I don't think that number is far off. I don't really think they are hoping for a furlough as much as they are willing to give up a junior guy to keep their pay. Call your union rep and ask him what kind of calls he's getting. And like I said, these guys are standing up at union meetings and saying the junior guys need to go, to be willing to say this openly speaks volumes. From my perspective, I have not flown with a Capt in the last year who did not advocate for a furlough. Their reasoning is; "that's just the way it is in this business".

BTW for you capt's out there, please stop saying this kind of stuff in the c
ockpit, it really doesn't help CRM.[/QUOT

You have obviously not flown with me in the past year. Your rhetoric about how we senior guys advocate a furlough is divisive and only serves to promote managements agenda. Please cut us some slack. I don't like the pay cut. I also don't want to see Rick or whatever his name is, out on the street.
Another poster said the union is in a war with management. In any war there will will be casualties. Are you willing to accept that yet? As for me, for now I'll take the pay cut, but... I won't freeze or sweat during preflight.

Oh, and by the way, I've flown with plenty of you senior FO's who advocate a furlough. Works both ways, doesn't it?
Now look at that sentence. Sounds divisive, doesn't it. Sorry.:)

as someone who is in that top 40% i don't want to see a furlough either....i actually enjoy the extra days off....but md10 is right we have no leverage here....the union has to be careful because if they win the grievance after the excess they will probably furlough....this is very complicated....as u may know i am not happy with the leadership right now so i have trouble blindly getting on the side of DW .....in my 14 yrs i feel i have been screwed once by the company with the optimizer which affected 2 months of flying and once by the union with DWs age 65 debacle which cost me 5 years of seniority....i think he may be trying to pump himself up fully knowing that we have no leverage here and then he leaves office on a hi note....then the next guy looks like the bad guy.......seriously everyone is getting all pumped up here....for what?....someone tell me what we can do?....where is our leverage?...it seems if we win the grievance the juniors guys are toast and if we lose the grievance the junior guys are toast also....bottom line is 42ab was a mistake....and of course we did it to ourselves by voting for and ratifying it!.....i would rather see both sides talk more...fix the carryover issue and keep everyone on the property....any thought guys?

I am with you. If the company and the union would simply agree to fix the carryover issue and limit our block hours that we are allowed to fly at straight time the problem would be solved. Instead ALPA has gone off on this greivance tangent which will not solve anything and only cause the company to furlough.

This is the part I don't get. The union put forth a very good proposal to mitigate the over-manning, which was a win-win proposal. The company shot it down cold. I can understand why they would not be willing to address early retirements, but the rest was very good. Clearly there must be something, we are not privy to, going on.

Not one of your better posts.

If the company does have a major excess...THEN they should be allowed to use 4.A.2.b. Why would they furlough, if we win the grievance? They unquestionably would be able to use 4.A.2.b., if their overmanning figures are correct.

Leverage? Some, in the 777 workrules, some in 4.A.2.b. are examples.

I would rather see both sides talking, as well. But, only if the company was willing to negoatiate in good faith. Not with the proverbial gun held to our heads.

I want my union leaders to stand up for my contract. And, I'm thankful that we have 4.A.2.b. in the contract, for the junior guys.

BTW...I'm in the top 20% of the seniority list.