You could at least hold it until 959AM and drop it. I guess it could be bad if you get denied the drop... Just an idea..

Frickin hilarious....a classic! :):D

Here's another idea...DON'T PICK UP THE TRIPS. Duh.

If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.

How about joining me in a new tactic I just started. If you are going to be in the AOC, look at the DP list and see if there is a pairing that shows close to your show time, look at the flight number and then go ask the guys (in a not so quiet voice) why they are flying a DP. Peer pressure and shame can even work in MEM. Emailing these morons is one thing (we should all do) but I got so PO'd I decided to take it to another level. With the 50 or so we have this month at least a couple guys should be able to talk to each DP flyer.

If we don't start taking the bull by the horns we are weaker than I ever imagined, absolutely impotent at controlling our destiny and will continue to see our schedules deteriorate in quality.

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[QUOTE=HornetFDX;643512]Here's another idea...DON'T PICK UP THE TRIPS. Duh.

If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.

Even if they are not picked up (like was done in ANC) the process allows PC or whoever his replacement becomes the ability to say the dispute is invalid and make the trip permanent! :mad: It started with ANC-NRT-NGO and now is ANC-NRT-KIX or ICN

[QUOTE=MaxKts;643591]
That is certainly true. But, the rest of the story is that most DP's that are routinely not picked up DO get fixed long before they get to that point.

And these 8 in 24 trips would surely get fixed, if they had to burn 2 or 3 R-days per 1 day trip, on a reserve.

[quote=Busboy;643597]The problem with these 8n24 pairings is that they are just as safe as any other day layover we have in our system. They are disputed because we can't "turn into or out of" them or the 16ish rest is on our own time. Under that criteria, there could be a number of higher profile pairings that fall into that category as well. I enjoy 24HR+ SEA, OAK, SFO, SJC layovers just as much as anyone, but like the company we kind of want it both ways on this one.

I support the process, even though it does'nt appear to work, but safety and fatigue has to remain the driver or the broken system will REALLY have no chance to work. In the end it won't matter because as I understand it, under domestic flag these trips would be in violation per the FARs, not per the contract.

If the higher profile flights you are talking about are the STN,KIX,FRA,CDG,CGN/MEM flights, you are mixing apples and oranges. Those flights consist of one leg that exceeds 8 hours of block. The west coast flights are two different duty periods which combine to go over 8 in 24. Unless you have figured out how to bend space, KIX/MEM is never going to be under 8 hours block. Again, the west coast flights are fixable, the others are not. It's sad to see a pilot side with the company on this one.:(

[quote=MaxKts;643591]The deal is....the pilots still have the power. If the trip turns out to be undo able from a safety or fatigue standpoint......you have your options.

Siding with reason, not the company. Can you turn into or out of STN,KIX,CDG,VCP,CGN/MEM? On the inbound leg to MEM where do you get your 16ish hours of rest, regardless of # of duty periods? 8n24 is defined by >8hrs of block over a sliding 24hr period, regardless of how many duty periods that 24hrs contains, right? What if you live in SEA,OAK,SJC,SFO? What if you live in MEM and fly STN,VCP,etc. lines, your 8n24 rest is always on your own time. How many more subjective qualifiers can we add. All that said, HARD PARAMETERS! So that DPs can be reserved for safety and fatigue design pairings (which normally they are), not just inconvenient ones.