Onetime,

As I mentioned before, STN, VCP,etc, are different animals. You can work 8 days for the month and be complete. With the west coast trips, it would take 4 more days away (at least, probably 5). Seeing we have a majority of commuters, this is a big deal. BTW, I don't commute and I think it sucks.

Safety? I'll let you be the judge. Quality of life issues? Absolutely.

These DP flyers are f'ing us over big time. Look at all the west coast pairings, this is a huge deal! You want to spend more time awayfrom home and get paid the same?????

Alright, crank up the optimizer. If it's legal, I guess you are for it. One persons reason is anothers insanity. :D

GNF-
I mostly agree with what you're saying. QOL is an issue, but IMHO that's what seniority and bidding are designed to address. My QOL would suck if all I could hold is RA in MEM, but I live in Colorado. The 8n24 rule does not care where you went, where you live, how many times you have to commute, how much we get paid, or the time space continuum between KIX and MEM. I don't want to get be away from home more and get paid the same, but that problem is way bigger than the DP process, which whether we like it or not is failing us.

Insanity could define the DP process at this point, since you are expecting a different result. Some people think FedEx Express exists only to make 5000 pilots happy. If it's legal (i.e. does not violate the contract) then yes I can live with it, though I may not like it, since I voted YES. However, I do have lots of notes to send to the NC.

Onetime,

Compare a schedule full of 8/24s versus an international trip like KIX, VCP, STN, etc. Want to be away from home 8-10 days a month or 13? I am not for anything that gives up our quality of life. And these pairings do that, especially for commuters. This is a bad precedent. This isn't a seniority issue, it is a problem fleet wide and across the board.

This is more of a commuter problem. I live in MEM (that's another story) and could do a month of these pairings and be gone 8 days. Not a bad deal for me. But it is a bad deal for the crew force as a whole (majority of them are commuters like yourself) and I support the union as a whole and not just my selfish motives.

The union should step in and start naming these guys, not just pairing numbers...

You can live with it because it doesn't affect YOU.

Evidently a string of one-after-another hits to others is inconsequential, since it's legal, good for the company, and none of those problems affects you personally.

Got it. :rolleyes:

Oh it affects me. I'm >90% in the MD right seat. But battles should be picked very carefully and this months battles on 8n24 might be one to save for another day, particularly since domestic flag will probably take care of that anyway. Unsafe and ultra-fatiguing pairings are a different story.

True, but it seems we're doing an awful lot of "saving for another day'. If there is a battle, it would be nice to win one once in awhile. Meanwhile, the slide continues in both QOL and pay, and the unsafe/fatiguing trips are part of that.

When it comes to $$ vs. safety--the choice is obvious. :o

OK - here's what you do. ALL of YOU, send your names to JMI and RH of the SIG and tell them you'd like to be pairing reviewers. In fact, include your own particular bidpack group - their email is posted in the bidpack. Whether it actually comes to fruition or not, let them know you want to participate in the process. All you'll give up is about 12 hours a month reviewing the pre-lims and the finals, and you'll have an opportunity to make an input and participate on the conference call with the Company. IT'S EASY!!! You'll be part of the process - and the solution! Hopefully the Company will take notice when 1,000 crew members step up to participate. I know the MEC and NC will.

NOW - with regards to the MEM disputes - those pairings pay 8:xx or so. The VCP, STN, CDG trips pay 20:xx. There's also the time between 8 - 10 that's NOT accounted for in the credit value of the trip, so those three really pay about . . . 24 each. So, apples and oranges.

As far as the 8/24 goes, as soon a crew member busts it, he'll get to meet the FAA, have a certificate suspension, fine, and some time off without pay. The Company doesn't care, and when a crew member tries to hook another trip to one of the disputed pairings - and VIPS lets him - oh well!

As far as FLAG Ops go, that's going to be EXCITING. The Company has NEVER been restricted with a 30/7 or 100 hours in a calendar month limit (it's a rolling 30 days in Supplemental). Internationally, we'll have 32/7, until the ANC crew does an OAK-SEA-ANC sequence, and they end up with 30/7 as well. 30 hours internationally is about 5 days on the MD-11. On the B-777F, the crews will operate MEM-CDG-CAN, then sit for 3 or 4 days. That stuff can all be programmed into the pairing generator (optimizer), and the line building program, but I expect to see a MAJOR melt-down the first time the Company runs it without SIG participation.

When is flag coming? Last I heard was June. It must be tied to the PDDs.:rolleyes: Or maybe they are figuring out what a goatrope it's going to be for them??