202 Retirements by 2012 at UPS
08-22-2009, 08:30 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by navigatro
401K matching or B-funds are MUCH cheaper than a defined benefit (A) plan.
That is why many companies (not just airlines) are getting rid of A plans.
That is why many companies (not just airlines) are getting rid of A plans.
08-22-2009, 09:06 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
You think that's the case even now with the age 65 retirements? I bet you the A plan will turn out to be much cheaper now...
FWIW, this is how I evaluated the A-Plan and retirement age.
If I had retired at age 60, my retired pay would have been $48K per year (16 years longevity at $3K per year). Over 5 years, this equates to $240K of "free money" I did not take.
However, with 5 more years of employment, my retired pay will increase $3000 per additional year of employment, or a total annual increase of $15,000.
My parent's average life span was 86 years. If I match that average, I will have 21 years after retirement at age 65. Those remaining years at $15K extra per year equate to an additional $315K of compensation. Considering the time value of money, that pretty much approximates or is greater than the $240K of retirement pay not taken. It also seems to me not to lessen the total retirement expenses that are required to be met by UPS. However, for those with more years of service, the tradeoff is not as clear.
Finally, I have 5 more years of employment to make very good wages, a good part of which is saved and furthers my life after retirement. Finally, I enjoy the job, and that was a big factor in choosing not to retire early.
Last edited by Roberto; 08-22-2009 at 12:07 PM.
08-22-2009, 09:07 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by Roberto
I play around with MS Excel like some play crossword puzzles. After being converted to the Excel format, the crew lists can be sorted numerous ways and some interesting information can result. (PS- I called them "departed crewmembers" but almost all of them were in fact retirements.)
Originally Posted by Roberto
The union gives virtually no publicity to those who retire, and I think a lot of us would like to see that information. When we were having new hires, the union would put a picture of each one in the paper. After 20 years with the IPA, however, they don't even bother to publish the names of those who retire, much less a picture and some comments.
As far as your earlier post regarding captain pay - I think you still assume that many of us will get at least 15-20 years in the left seat... I think many will be happy if they get 5 years, if any time at all, in the left seat - that's why I think your presumptions are incorrect...
08-22-2009, 09:07 AM
#55
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,677
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
You think that's the case even now with the age 65 retirements? I bet you the A plan will turn out to be much cheaper now...
Not only is the defined contribution plan cheaper, but the company does not have the long term funding obligations. Keep in mind that in the "real" world, people have been retiring at social security age for a long time (now 67 I believe.) There is a reason that many large corporations have eliminated their defined benefit plans.
By the way, lots of airline pilots like to quote a study that says the average airline pilot only lives 1 or 2 years after retirement. That is an urban legend. (viewed by experts as not being a valid study)
American Airlines funded a comprehensive study on pilot longevity after retirement, and the retirees lived longer than average. If I can find it I will post it.
08-22-2009, 09:11 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by Roberto
I'm not so sure UPS saves any A-Plan money by extending the retirement age.
FWIW, this is how I evaluated the A-Plan and retirement age.
If I had retired at age 60, my retired pay would have been $48K per year (16 years longevity at $3K per year). Over 5 years, this equates to $240K of "free money" I did not take.
However, with 5 more years of employment, my retired pay will increase $3000 per additional year of employment, or a total increase of $15,000.
My parent's average life span was 86 years. If I match that average, I will have 21 years after retirement at age 65. Those remaining years at $15K extra per year equate to an additional $315K of compensation. Considering the time value of money, that pretty much approximates or is greater than the $240K of retirement pay not taken. It also seems to me not to lessen the total retirement expenses that are required to be met by UPS.
Finally, I have 5 more years of employment to make very good wages, a good part of which is saved and furthers my life after retirement. Finally, I enjoy the job, and that was a big factor in choosing not to retire early.
FWIW, this is how I evaluated the A-Plan and retirement age.
If I had retired at age 60, my retired pay would have been $48K per year (16 years longevity at $3K per year). Over 5 years, this equates to $240K of "free money" I did not take.
However, with 5 more years of employment, my retired pay will increase $3000 per additional year of employment, or a total increase of $15,000.
My parent's average life span was 86 years. If I match that average, I will have 21 years after retirement at age 65. Those remaining years at $15K extra per year equate to an additional $315K of compensation. Considering the time value of money, that pretty much approximates or is greater than the $240K of retirement pay not taken. It also seems to me not to lessen the total retirement expenses that are required to be met by UPS.
Finally, I have 5 more years of employment to make very good wages, a good part of which is saved and furthers my life after retirement. Finally, I enjoy the job, and that was a big factor in choosing not to retire early.
08-22-2009, 12:04 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Unknown
Posts: 372
Originally Posted by Roberto
The union gives virtually no publicity to those who retire, and I think a lot of us would like to see that information. When we were having new hires, the union would put a picture of each one in the paper. After 20 years with the IPA, however, they don't even bother to publish the names of those who retire, much less a picture and some comments.
I felt bad that there was nothing in ANC or on the IPA website to note his retirement after 21+ years flying packages. I realize he wanted to keep things low key, but I'd really hate to think the only recognition he got after putting up with the crap all this time was a 2 yr guy (me) wishing him luck in retirement as we were walking thru security on the way out of the gateway.
08-25-2009, 07:17 AM
#58
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by Buck92
I totally agree. I was riding a j/s with the #1 guy on the seniority list about 6 weeks ago. I had operated with him only once before, but his being #1 kinda stuck in my mind. So we were casually chatting on the flight and I mentioned how nice it would be to submit one choice when bidding and know you will get it. He said something like "yeah, but that's over next week." When I asked what he meant, he told me he was retiring in 5 days (early retirement under MOU). He had already operated his last flight and was commuting home for the last time.
I felt bad that there was nothing in ANC or on the IPA website to note his retirement after 21+ years flying packages. I realize he wanted to keep things low key, but I'd really hate to think the only recognition he got after putting up with the crap all this time was a 2 yr guy (me) wishing him luck in retirement as we were walking thru security on the way out of the gateway.
I felt bad that there was nothing in ANC or on the IPA website to note his retirement after 21+ years flying packages. I realize he wanted to keep things low key, but I'd really hate to think the only recognition he got after putting up with the crap all this time was a 2 yr guy (me) wishing him luck in retirement as we were walking thru security on the way out of the gateway.
08-25-2009, 04:40 PM
#59
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by Pharo351
Actually I respect him more for the no fan fair approach. Thats a "True Professional Aviator" for you. He doesn't need the cakes, water hoses, or low passes to know he did a job well done and is now off to more happy pursuits then dieing in a freighter.
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