Proposed UPS pay rates
07-08-2006 | 08:06 AM
#161
Line Holder
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 2
From: DC-8 756/767
Well, just got back from a week trip. My take on the TA is as follows. I think the TA will pass between 55-60%. There are angry people out there, no doubt about it. As the week went on however, the level of hostility seemed to go down a bit as people talked among themselves and really studied the TA. There seems to be those who will vote NO just to vote NO, and those who will vote YES just to get er done with. There has been a lot of talk on here about people just off probation voting yes just to get the big pay raise and bonus. I have to say that of the 15 or so so called new-hires I have spoken to, I would guess 10 of them are saying they will vote NO. And like myself, there seems to be many many folks waiting to attend the GMM on Sunday to help make up their minds on how to vote. All I can say is, let the sales pitch begin.....
07-08-2006 | 10:27 AM
#162
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: C-17 AC; 767 FO
Originally Posted by Albief15
Everyone take a deep breath...
GSU...point Deuce was making was that we aren't a bunch of spoiled crybabies, but in the airline game we gotta fight for every nickel and dime benefit. There is very little "...do it because its the right thing for the company/crewforce...", instead it comes down to contracts and attorneys. I always felt like in the military my leadership valued me as a officer, but in my airline job I'm generally just labor. I think FedEx has a better atmosphere than most places, but at the companies that have aggressively furloughed you can see how "de-humanizing" the whole process can be.
Its one thing to sleep-starve yourself (at age 25-35) to help the country or your bros on the ground overseas. Its another to be beaten up in your 40s or 50s so management and the shareholders can squeeze a few more pennies out of the margins. I didn't ***** about flying long days in austere conditions when I was active duty, but the same conditions would severely irritate me now. Its a different game...that's all.
As for T-1 job--thanks. I was never a FAIP or a UPT IP, but I know it can be a tough, thankless job at times. Its is also critically important, because you are not only teaching flying skills but setting the example these guys will emulate for most of their careers. Keep up the good work.
GSU...point Deuce was making was that we aren't a bunch of spoiled crybabies, but in the airline game we gotta fight for every nickel and dime benefit. There is very little "...do it because its the right thing for the company/crewforce...", instead it comes down to contracts and attorneys. I always felt like in the military my leadership valued me as a officer, but in my airline job I'm generally just labor. I think FedEx has a better atmosphere than most places, but at the companies that have aggressively furloughed you can see how "de-humanizing" the whole process can be.
Its one thing to sleep-starve yourself (at age 25-35) to help the country or your bros on the ground overseas. Its another to be beaten up in your 40s or 50s so management and the shareholders can squeeze a few more pennies out of the margins. I didn't ***** about flying long days in austere conditions when I was active duty, but the same conditions would severely irritate me now. Its a different game...that's all.
As for T-1 job--thanks. I was never a FAIP or a UPT IP, but I know it can be a tough, thankless job at times. Its is also critically important, because you are not only teaching flying skills but setting the example these guys will emulate for most of their careers. Keep up the good work.
Point taken, thanks Albief15.
07-08-2006 | 11:01 AM
#163
...Whatever It Is!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by gsu50
Especially you ex-military guys that are retired. You can't tell me you've got it bad pulling in an extra check on top of your retirement. It's become increasingly difficult to get to that point in the Air Force today because of all the jobs that keep getting cut or contracted out year after year.
BTW - I don't have a military retirement, trust fund, or another business, but I do buy the occassional lottery ticket!
07-08-2006 | 11:53 AM
#164
Line Holder
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: A300 Capt.
Originally Posted by UPSFO4LIFE
Well, just got back from a week trip. My take on the TA is as follows. I think the TA will pass between 55-60%. There are angry people out there, no doubt about it. As the week went on however, the level of hostility seemed to go down a bit as people talked among themselves and really studied the TA. There seems to be those who will vote NO just to vote NO, and those who will vote YES just to get er done with. There has been a lot of talk on here about people just off probation voting yes just to get the big pay raise and bonus. I have to say that of the 15 or so so called new-hires I have spoken to, I would guess 10 of them are saying they will vote NO. And like myself, there seems to be many many folks waiting to attend the GMM on Sunday to help make up their minds on how to vote. All I can say is, let the sales pitch begin.....
I would imagine that there are far fewer NO votes for the sake of it than there are YES votes "just to get it done" with. Either way it's pathetic that anyone would waste a vote that they do not whole heartedly support. This contract is both substandard and concessional in too many aspects to get anything other than a NO vote from me.
The road shows won't fix all that this TA is lacking and smack of a desperate attempt by the EB to "sell" this obviously hurried and, IMHO, worthless deal to those that are looking for a reason to vote yes.
07-08-2006 | 11:59 AM
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,253
Likes: 0
My wife's uncle lives down the road. He did 20 years as a Marine pilot, including two tours in Vietnam, one in Hueys, one in C-130s. Flew missions during the Khe Sanh siege. Stateside he flew one of the two USMC C-9s. In other words, I am in awe of his military record.
He's a farmer since retiring, and we got along pretty good when I was at ASA and Gemini. But when I made it to FDX things changed. I started hearing around the community that he was bad-mouthing me and all majors pilots, telling everyone I work 8 days a month and make $300k a year.
We were BS'ing one day and had a few, and he lit into me about how he used to fly 200 hour months into combat for such and such pay. He's 69 now and I couldn't say much - just got out of there as quick as I could.
I sure can understand some of his resentment and what our job looks like from the outside. But if I could convey a few points, they would be these:
- ~70% of us flew military first;
- Of the remainder, probably 70% of THEM tried to get into military flying and couldn't(including me - Albie's my witness);
- I am in awe of what the military does every day;
- Maybe what we do isn't all back rubs and beer either. I flew 14.1 hours MEM-NRT day before yesterday; I'll do ~14.5 hours KIX-MEM tomorrow. That's twice in 4 days showing up at midnight to start a 16 hour duty day, not to mention crossing 9 time zones twice. Yeah I'm just an RFO. But is still ain't a picnic. I get two days off at home then off to Paris.
This contention has been around since the days of Ernie Gann. Read "Fate is the Hunter." He went to war while his airline buddies flew routes they couldn't have held otherwise.....
He's a farmer since retiring, and we got along pretty good when I was at ASA and Gemini. But when I made it to FDX things changed. I started hearing around the community that he was bad-mouthing me and all majors pilots, telling everyone I work 8 days a month and make $300k a year.
We were BS'ing one day and had a few, and he lit into me about how he used to fly 200 hour months into combat for such and such pay. He's 69 now and I couldn't say much - just got out of there as quick as I could.
I sure can understand some of his resentment and what our job looks like from the outside. But if I could convey a few points, they would be these:
- ~70% of us flew military first;
- Of the remainder, probably 70% of THEM tried to get into military flying and couldn't(including me - Albie's my witness);
- I am in awe of what the military does every day;
- Maybe what we do isn't all back rubs and beer either. I flew 14.1 hours MEM-NRT day before yesterday; I'll do ~14.5 hours KIX-MEM tomorrow. That's twice in 4 days showing up at midnight to start a 16 hour duty day, not to mention crossing 9 time zones twice. Yeah I'm just an RFO. But is still ain't a picnic. I get two days off at home then off to Paris.
This contention has been around since the days of Ernie Gann. Read "Fate is the Hunter." He went to war while his airline buddies flew routes they couldn't have held otherwise.....
Last edited by Huck; 07-08-2006 at 12:03 PM.
07-08-2006 | 02:51 PM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
From: DA-40
Originally Posted by gsu50
What the hell high horse are you talking about? Nothing you quoted was condescending in the least! What's with the attacks? By the way I guarantee that there's no where close to 90% military on this board. And unless you've flown military in the past 4 years you have no clue to what ops are like anymore....whose on thier "high horse" now.
You know what, F You....I've been involved in the airline business my whole life. Both of my parents worked for an airline that got bought out by another airline and lost retirement from the first and now the second because of "bankruptsy". Yes, I'm a pilot, so you can call me a traitor to your "cause", BUT all of you have been paid WAY TOO MUCH for WAY TOO LONG, so stop you bitching about a few hours rest and a couple more dollars.
That's not to say that management doesn't have a whole lot of blame here too. CEOs have been extremely overcompensated for what little they do, but for the love of ____ take your 100K + a year jobs and SHUT the HELL UP!
You know what, F You....I've been involved in the airline business my whole life. Both of my parents worked for an airline that got bought out by another airline and lost retirement from the first and now the second because of "bankruptsy". Yes, I'm a pilot, so you can call me a traitor to your "cause", BUT all of you have been paid WAY TOO MUCH for WAY TOO LONG, so stop you bitching about a few hours rest and a couple more dollars.
That's not to say that management doesn't have a whole lot of blame here too. CEOs have been extremely overcompensated for what little they do, but for the love of ____ take your 100K + a year jobs and SHUT the HELL UP!
Seriously though, many of us would think nothing of flying 24 hour duty days and volunteering in the sandbox to help out the country. And many of us 100K+ per year job guys do both. The problem is that while we don't mind doing our duty to help out the red, white and blue or to keep the terrorists off our shores, we don't want to give multibillion dollar corporations that 'extra' help. If the corporations want us to 'go the extra mile', they have to pay for it.
I know a reservist who while on active duty recall during Iraqi Freedom bragged about how he flew over 1000 hours in a little over a year. That same guy was bragging about how he dropped nearly 300 hours of trips (below his guarantee) while his union was in contract negotiations with his company (that was/is still profitable and wanting concessions). Same guy, different situations.
Many of the guys here gave and are giving their all to the country, but they aren't going to take it up the ### from their COMPANY.
P.S. By the way, I thought your first post wasn't inflammatory at all. But the last one..........
Last edited by MalteseX; 07-08-2006 at 03:12 PM.
07-08-2006 | 05:08 PM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
From: -
who cares how you vote. the tired line of "im going to vote no if..," is just that tired. are you trying to impress others or yourself? get over it. you get a vote- i get a vote. i don't care if you vote yes or no (it would be nice if you did vote).
07-10-2006 | 09:36 PM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
I hear you. My fiancee is a commuter pilot and thinks we are a bunch of crybabies. Him and I have both worked other jobs and BELIEVE ME in the grand scheme of things we have it really good. All of our opinions are obviously based on our own experiences.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
