767pilot

I agree with you except for one thing. This is not a negotiation, it is a deal. When a group is not organized (unionized) there is no one to legally negotiate with. You make a deal with FQS 1, and FQS2 doesn't like it, what do you do about it? If they wanted the legal right to have a say they should have done this on their own a while back. There are many cases out there (southwest and it's aquisitions, where a non unionized group is integrated and it is with a staple gun. Deal done, end of story. We are being way more generous than that. There is no provision at all to arbitrate this thing if someone doesn't like it.

767pilot

It depends on how badly you need your grass cut. We need ours cut badly enough to integrate them onto the list, not to cede it over to them.

Do you really mean what you say or are you just being provacative? It seeems like you are upset that you will lose more numbers through your juniority than others that are senior, so why not stab them as hard as you are being asked to take it. I'm confused, because a post or two down you seem to be in favor of bringing them over.

As to the manager that wants to be unionized but only in a favorable seat position, I would say you are either going to be union or not. There are going to be pro's and con's. Enjoy working half as much as you do now, having time with the family off of the beeper. and the ability to tell your boss to shove it when things get to tough on you. We've had good men literally crack and end up in psychiatric hospitals when they couldn't take the pressures put on them by UPS without a union to stand behind them. Read Stilly's stories and imagine going through that alone. It goes a long way to explaining why DW was found naked in a church off of the interstate.

I don't see where losing the captains seat is a threat to them. They will remain captains in a merged list, albeit some will be junior, and unless there are more displacements, there is no mechanism for them to lose that stripe.

I'm reminded of the guy asking a woman to sleep with him and he gets slapped in the face. He asks her to do it for a million bucks and she asks what kind of a gril she thinks she is? He replies that he already knows the answer to that, now they are just arguing over the price.

767pilot

BINGO! The interesting thing for them to consider though is that if this thing fails, they may find themselves the one being cut, standing on the street and wondering what happened.

Pilot7576

Folks....

All these arguments about list placement and paycuts for the junior mgrs presuppose that the fqs cpts make as much as IPA cpts....I don't think that is the case...had a ual cpt interview for a mgr position a couple years ago and they offered him less than 150k for the position....

Pilot7576

757upspilot

I have heard this from more than one person from a 747 carrier when we started the 400 program.

1111

A little touch of the Devils Advocate, but more confused by the direction the EB is heading with it. Bring the jobs over to the Union.....Yes, It would be very good for our union as a whole...no question. The method we are approaching it is weak...that is my point!! Offer them the bottom, if we really don't want them to sign (in order to pursue them legally and staple them when they don't come willingly)....or, bribe them with a chance of a lifetime to be 1-170. The only folks that will push back are those with a vendetta against the FQS and Senior members who's QOL will be affected by sliding 170 slots (but not affected by DOH). None of those are legit reasons to keep the Union as a whole from making the offer.

DOH is pandering to a few in the Union who keep their QOL and the rest who are once again pushed back. The DOH offer more than likely will be rejected, and a LOOOOOOONG and drawn out legal battle will begin, while in the mean time 54 of our guys walk out the door in two months. And every month after more will follow.......that is my rub!

If they reject the top of the List, then we don't want the pilots, let's go after the slots. (some would argue that is the direction we should be going anyway)

767pilot

I'm told that the get offered "about" the same as our contract calls for with the same years of service. A starting guy is not going to make the same as you and I. A guy hired as a manager in 2005 is now making "about" what our contract calls for a 5 or 6 year captain to make. Their retirement is not as good as ours anymore.

757upspilot

A couple have told me the medical plan isn't as good either.

FreightDawg2

This effort is short sighted and short lived. It will fail and it will fail big. You will only see about 10% of ANY supervisor vote to be part this highly disfunctional union.
IMO

UPSFO4LIFE

Hell, 5% would shock the hell out of me!