UPS avg. Captain pay with T/A
07-26-2006, 03:52 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Jet Pilot
Posts: 797
The common denominator with those "other" big companies is not cost of labor but a failure to respond to the market and provide a properly priced, competitive product.
07-27-2006, 08:23 AM
#33
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by Rocket Bob
Careful tossing out those "concessionary contract" phrases in a room full of DAL, UAL, USAir, NWA, AMR pilots, you may get punched in the face. Does UPS make 4 bill. a year, yeah... And if every other employee feels the same sense of entitlement that we have exhibited over the next few years, this company will be bleeding. Big Brown will have the same problems that now plague other big companies, high labor costs, pension problems, health care issues, etc., just a matter of time.
07-27-2006, 10:33 AM
#34
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD11 F/O
Posts: 653
Great reasoning
Originally Posted by Rocket Bob
Careful tossing out those "concessionary contract" phrases in a room full of DAL, UAL, USAir, NWA, AMR pilots, you may get punched in the face. Does UPS make 4 bill. a year, yeah... And if every other employee feels the same sense of entitlement that we have exhibited over the next few years, this company will be bleeding. Big Brown will have the same problems that now plague other big companies, high labor costs, pension problems, health care issues, etc., just a matter of time.
07-27-2006, 11:21 AM
#35
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: B-747-400 FO
Posts: 354
Originally Posted by MD11HOG
In other words, Don't negotiate a good contract during record profits. .
07-27-2006, 11:51 AM
#36
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by Rocket Bob
I didn't say that. I started out by saying "don't call this a concessionary contract". Calling this TA concessionary is a slap in the face to guys who have gotten destroyed by 50% pay cuts, downbids, pension terminations, etc. Can you blame UPS for wanting to compare our contract to those at other pilot groups post 9/11? When times were good, we wanted to be paid like "airline pilots".
07-27-2006, 01:44 PM
#37
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 679
Guys..
The problem is perception and bias. During the teamster fiasco in '98 I actually had a ground manager tell me that ups pilots didn't deserve parity because "we only flew boxes and not passengers." An easy argument to rebut....why did delta pilots make more than airtran...were their pax more valuable?
It's not who or what you fly, it's the revenue generated by the flight. Through good times and bad for the legacy pax carriers, boxes generate more revenue than a plane full of pax. That is what those boxheads have to have drilled into their cardboard craniums.
We (ups/fedex) deserve everything that we negotiate, whether the legacies are doing poorly or doing well.
JMO
Pilot7576
The problem is perception and bias. During the teamster fiasco in '98 I actually had a ground manager tell me that ups pilots didn't deserve parity because "we only flew boxes and not passengers." An easy argument to rebut....why did delta pilots make more than airtran...were their pax more valuable?
It's not who or what you fly, it's the revenue generated by the flight. Through good times and bad for the legacy pax carriers, boxes generate more revenue than a plane full of pax. That is what those boxheads have to have drilled into their cardboard craniums.
We (ups/fedex) deserve everything that we negotiate, whether the legacies are doing poorly or doing well.
JMO
Pilot7576
07-28-2006, 12:17 PM
#38
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Former 757/767 F/O, now MD-11
Posts: 148
Stuff
When I did my interview with UPS last year, my research came up with UPS carrying almost 50% of the cargo market inside the U.S. FedEx came in at 25%, and the other 25% carried by your local operators, ASTAR, etc.
I think there comes a point where a company can get too big for its own good but I don't believe UPS is there yet or will be in the near future. Something drastic would have to happen like China cashing in all the T-bills they own and causing the U.S. economy to tank. THAT would cause a ripple or two.
On another note, while wandering around the UPS ready room last night, the only buttons I saw attached to the shirt lapels of fellow crew members were Vote No buttons. Did not see any vote yes buttons. The final tally will be interesting.
I think there comes a point where a company can get too big for its own good but I don't believe UPS is there yet or will be in the near future. Something drastic would have to happen like China cashing in all the T-bills they own and causing the U.S. economy to tank. THAT would cause a ripple or two.
On another note, while wandering around the UPS ready room last night, the only buttons I saw attached to the shirt lapels of fellow crew members were Vote No buttons. Did not see any vote yes buttons. The final tally will be interesting.
Last edited by AmericanIdiot#1; 07-28-2006 at 12:19 PM. Reason: Spelling
07-28-2006, 01:35 PM
#40
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Jet Pilot
Posts: 797
On another note, while wandering around the UPS ready room last night, the only buttons I saw attached to the shirt lapels of fellow crew members were Vote No buttons.
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