UPS A Plea for Civility
09-12-2010 | 11:27 AM
#21
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
09-12-2010 | 11:33 AM
#22
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
As you so aptly pointed out earlier, it is obvious that the world is not involved in a Jihad in the classical sense of that word ( a holy war, perhaps the greatest of man's follies), but it is deeply divided on a great many more important issues.
Last edited by jungle; 09-12-2010 at 11:49 AM.
09-12-2010 | 12:28 PM
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Excellent. I would hate to think your mind so dull that you would think the world was involved in jihad against itself, as opposed to a group of radical islamists involved in jihad against the rest of the world. Or that we all burn each other's books as opposed to a group of radical islamists that burn the books and other property of those they consider infidels.
Now, since I'm more of a plain spoken person who is easily confused by those who speak in metaphors, riddles and parables, what did you mean by this?:
Do you wish that our bureaucrats were more radical in the classic sense of wanting to destroy the government so it can be rebuilt in their own image, or more radical in their approach to fighting radical islamist terrorism?
Carl
Now, since I'm more of a plain spoken person who is easily confused by those who speak in metaphors, riddles and parables, what did you mean by this?:
Carl
09-12-2010 | 12:49 PM
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
A few centuries of adherence to the status quo has brought us to this, would you call that an improvement or can you imagine that we might do better without being herded and harvested.
Governments and civilizations always manage to destroy themselves, the only question is how to start over. We started over with the founding of this country, perhaps that has run it's course.
Frankly I see very little need for any bureacrats at all, much less the kind that want to direct our lives.
09-12-2010 | 02:08 PM
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Governments and civilizations always manage to destroy themselves, the only question is how to start over. We started over with the founding of this country, perhaps that has run it's course.
Frankly I see very little need for any bureacrats at all, much less the kind that want to direct our lives.
Frankly I see very little need for any bureacrats at all, much less the kind that want to direct our lives.
Carl
09-12-2010 | 02:47 PM
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Your personal comments on the first post of this thread talked about Jihad. Sorry to break this to you, but that belongs strictly to radical islam. So, again, if you're talking about jihad (even metaphorically), you're talking about radical islam.
Radical islam's answer to that question is no. Their position is that islam cannot coexist, because they cannot coexist with infidels (non-believers). They say: "all people must either convert, or face the sword." That whole "sword" thing kind of sounds like harvesting...doesn't it? When one side will accept nothing but a harvest, there is no choice but to resist that - or be harvested.
Carl
Radical islam's answer to that question is no. Their position is that islam cannot coexist, because they cannot coexist with infidels (non-believers). They say: "all people must either convert, or face the sword." That whole "sword" thing kind of sounds like harvesting...doesn't it? When one side will accept nothing but a harvest, there is no choice but to resist that - or be harvested.
Carl
Well, you almost had it but then you lost it. Does the word Crusade ring a bell?
For every folly it is possible to name an equal and opposite folly. The funniest thing about this is that it seems easy to see others herded without understanding that you are being herded at the same time. Again, this has nothing to do with islam, you just seem focused on that particular subject right now. I am sure you can think of a thousand other examples.
No matter, I had assumed efforts at civility would be met with strong opposition. So goes the world.
09-12-2010 | 03:14 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Defending yourself against a determined enemy who will accept nothing but either your conversion or your head is not folly. Those who are alive to call it folly are only alive because of those who defend.
Carl
09-12-2010 | 03:27 PM
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Conversion has never worked very well, although that doesn't seem to keep people from trying all sorts of things. Nobody gets a free pass, terror and violence will always be met with the same.
Violence has always been the least effective long term method of changing anyones mind, but it has always been viewed as handy, because reason was always in such short supply. Plowshares may be beaten back into swords, but no amount of hammering makes the senseless sensible.
Violence has always been the least effective long term method of changing anyones mind, but it has always been viewed as handy, because reason was always in such short supply. Plowshares may be beaten back into swords, but no amount of hammering makes the senseless sensible.
09-12-2010 | 03:31 PM
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>>Violence has always been the least effective long term method of changing anyones mind, but it has always been viewed as handy, because reason was always in such short supply.<<
Violence or it's polar opposite has always been the only method to change someone's mind.
Violence or it's polar opposite has always been the only method to change someone's mind.
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