UPS A Plea for Civility
09-12-2010 | 03:41 PM
#31
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
This may be impossible if the the subject is unreasonable to start with, as are so many of man's quests.
09-12-2010 | 03:53 PM
#32
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How does one "reason" with that? Perhaps all those that have tried thus far lacked your ability to reason.
You appear to be one of those folks that like very much to be free, but would accept subjugation if it meant no violence. I've never understood that. I hope the peace you seek is worth the price you may have to pay.
Carl
09-12-2010 | 04:10 PM
#33
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From: 767 FO
...
Violence has always been the least effective long term method of changing anyones mind, but it has always been viewed as handy, because reason was always in such short supply. Plowshares may be beaten back into swords, but no amount of hammering makes the senseless sensible.
Violence has always been the least effective long term method of changing anyones mind, but it has always been viewed as handy, because reason was always in such short supply. Plowshares may be beaten back into swords, but no amount of hammering makes the senseless sensible.
09-12-2010 | 04:21 PM
#34
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Violence against the peaceful is senseless. Defense against violence is not only sensible, it is virtuous.
You appear to be one of those folks that like very much to be free, but would accept subjugation if it meant no violence. I've never understood that. I hope the peace you seek is worth the price you may have to pay.
Carl
You appear to be one of those folks that like very much to be free, but would accept subjugation if it meant no violence. I've never understood that. I hope the peace you seek is worth the price you may have to pay.
Carl
I will never seek peace over any sort of subjugation.
Since you seem to be be hung up on Jihad as a metaphor, just substitute crusade or conflict based on belief or any of a dozen other words. I think you can agree there is a large scale worldwide conflict based on ideas and beliefs, this is nothing new. Many of these conflicts involve resistance to subjugation in one form or another. Most of them have much more at stake than the outcome of a small struggle by fanatics. It doesn't make good news footage, but somehow people burning books on philosophy does.
Last edited by jungle; 09-12-2010 at 04:41 PM.
09-12-2010 | 04:26 PM
#35
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Reminds me of an old Air Force ACSC question (pre gulf war). Something like "When has air power/strategic bombing ever one/ended a war? Of course the politically correct answer was never; but I could never get anyone to tell me why WW II Pacific theater was not correct. Of course the Air Corpse (In deference to the CIC) could not have done it alone but it is hard to argue that Strategic Bombing didnt end that war (IMHO). Back to the subject. Reasoning worked well with the Nazis, especially after a boot applied to throat improved their ability to listen.
09-12-2010 | 04:40 PM
#36
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
09-12-2010 | 04:52 PM
#37
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Excellent. If that was your point all along, then we agree. But maybe you can understand my confusion by your initial post quoting someone like Tom Robbins, and then saying this:
The world is not "going" jihad becasue that would infer that the jihad is reciprocal. The world is having jihad perpetrated upon it. I'm pleased to hear you're not one of those who would seek peace over subjugation. I could just choke people like that.
Carl
The world is not "going" jihad becasue that would infer that the jihad is reciprocal. The world is having jihad perpetrated upon it. I'm pleased to hear you're not one of those who would seek peace over subjugation. I could just choke people like that.
Carl
We often use the trite phrase "never again", but that doesn't seem to have much effect.
09-12-2010 | 05:10 PM
#38
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From: 747-400 Captain
Our ideas and beliefs do not include slaughtering the peaceful. We are not subjugators. You are simply mistaken when you conflate the ideas and beliefs or our nation with those of our enemy. If I didn't know you were an airline pilot, I would think you were a lifelong academic - the kind that refer to themselves as "intellectuals."
Carl
09-12-2010 | 05:27 PM
#39
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
The ideas and beliefs of our enemy are geared toward subjugation. Our response is absolutely not reciprocal or morally equivalent in any way. To the extent our nation has responded with violence, I'm reminded of the general that is often quoted by Colin Powell: "The only land we have ever taken from one of our vanquished enemies, is that land required to bury our dead."
Our ideas and beliefs do not include slaughtering the peaceful. We are not subjugators. You are simply mistaken when you conflate the ideas and beliefs or our nation with those of our enemy. If I didn't know you were an airline pilot, I would think you were a lifelong academic - the kind that refer to themselves as "intellectuals."
Carl
Our ideas and beliefs do not include slaughtering the peaceful. We are not subjugators. You are simply mistaken when you conflate the ideas and beliefs or our nation with those of our enemy. If I didn't know you were an airline pilot, I would think you were a lifelong academic - the kind that refer to themselves as "intellectuals."
Carl
You are confusing the sideshow war with the real struggle. My objections are not directed at war, but at surrender.
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