FDX MEC Endorses TA
02-10-2011, 10:41 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
While certain sections of the contract are certainly tied to the NPRM, there are parts of those sections that could be addressed. We all have issues that are important to us, and not so much to others. How about really fixing 4.A.2.b., min pay for reserve day, etc, etc....
Our management team lost my goodwill a long time ago. They abused 4.A.2.b., are taking a hard line with discipline, changed the informal accepted fares process, min manned reserve, bumped and flushed, 777 pay rates, etc.
The company wants the FDA LOA to help them save costs. We all know this, but when you have to deadhead someone to Europe or Asia, they spend thousands on airline fares. They also lose tons of productivity from that pilot because he easily spends 20-30 hours of his BLG coming and going. An FDA results in LESS PILOTS REQUIRED. I know they are also hoping to realign seniority in the FDAs. They are paying tons of passover in HKG now.
Per diem 20 cents? A signing bonus of 1% based on a company imposed 4.A.2.b.?
I believe we'll get the 3% out of them eventually anyway. That's the real advantage. What's the time value of money when it is such a small sum?
When they want to really negotiate with us, they will. We have a peak season coming up in 10 months where we will be significantly undermanned and hopefully a united crew force (I have my doubts, but I can still dream). I'll wait until they really want to talk..
Our management team lost my goodwill a long time ago. They abused 4.A.2.b., are taking a hard line with discipline, changed the informal accepted fares process, min manned reserve, bumped and flushed, 777 pay rates, etc.
The company wants the FDA LOA to help them save costs. We all know this, but when you have to deadhead someone to Europe or Asia, they spend thousands on airline fares. They also lose tons of productivity from that pilot because he easily spends 20-30 hours of his BLG coming and going. An FDA results in LESS PILOTS REQUIRED. I know they are also hoping to realign seniority in the FDAs. They are paying tons of passover in HKG now.
Per diem 20 cents? A signing bonus of 1% based on a company imposed 4.A.2.b.?
I believe we'll get the 3% out of them eventually anyway. That's the real advantage. What's the time value of money when it is such a small sum?
When they want to really negotiate with us, they will. We have a peak season coming up in 10 months where we will be significantly undermanned and hopefully a united crew force (I have my doubts, but I can still dream). I'll wait until they really want to talk..
02-10-2011, 10:46 AM
#124
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Backseat
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Malter
Anyone interested in "VIPS SERVER BUSY" or the mysterious Reserve system that the individual schedulers run at his/her whim, or trip trades that take two days, or the idea that discipline protection when commuting to work ONLY applies to FDX aircraft from your "staging" location when listed as "staging"? Are you commuters aware of this last one? So if I'm a Miami commuter, and I happen to be in Tampa commuting on a FDX aircraft and the flight cancels or diverts, I get a letter! Or if I am commuting from my staging location and listed as "business" (like our System Chief Pilot told us to do at a hub turn meeting) and the flight does not make it, I get a letter!
This is some of the crap that needs to be addressed.........
This is some of the crap that needs to be addressed.........
Right on brother....
In addition:
New hire pay is just stupid. Is Panhandling 101 part of Basic Indoc now? (For the record, this is NOT an entry level flying job).
Section 25 needs more than a little work, and I think no automatic future raise or penalty for the company dragging their feet will be a problem. If this passes, I can't see any motivation for the company to ever come back to the table.
02-10-2011, 11:09 AM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 909
After sleeping on it, here's some random thoughts. NPRM results aren't out yet, so, they can't negotiate those sections until new rules are in effect. Makes sense.
SS states in his video message, "...major economic portions of contract not resolved..."
What could that mean?
They want new LOA in order to fill FDA with more seniority. ALPA figures get us a payraise now, get them (and us) their new LOA.
I don't understand why so many are mad at the "bonus"? Yea it sux!! But, honestly, what did you all expect? Thousands of dollars in bonus to make up for 4a2b? We grieved it, they won it!! It's OVER!!
3%...what do you want? 4-5-6%? if you think we'd get anything more than 3%, you need to go pee in a bottle.
It is what it is...
We had leverage with the LOA last time and didn't use it, we had leverage with 777 and didn't use it, we had the 'homefield' advantage during 4a2b and instead went boldly above and beyond to help company out and stab eachother in the back.
It's our fault. Period. Our union is a paper tiger....
Who do we think we are that we DESERVE better after our performance in the past? This TA isn't insulting, what's insulting is guys calling CRS ASKING if they need help during 4a2b, what's insulting is guys picking up trips during 4a2b, what's insulting is bidding a new aircraft without a pay rate (including MEC members), what's insulting is ALPA telling us that the LOA is the "best we can get", what's insulting is that we still supported Fuel Sense during 4a2b....
This will pass, because they are dangling a 3% carrot, and a LOA "doesn't affect me" attitude.
SS states in his video message, "...major economic portions of contract not resolved..."
What could that mean?
They want new LOA in order to fill FDA with more seniority. ALPA figures get us a payraise now, get them (and us) their new LOA.
I don't understand why so many are mad at the "bonus"? Yea it sux!! But, honestly, what did you all expect? Thousands of dollars in bonus to make up for 4a2b? We grieved it, they won it!! It's OVER!!
3%...what do you want? 4-5-6%? if you think we'd get anything more than 3%, you need to go pee in a bottle.
It is what it is...
We had leverage with the LOA last time and didn't use it, we had leverage with 777 and didn't use it, we had the 'homefield' advantage during 4a2b and instead went boldly above and beyond to help company out and stab eachother in the back.
It's our fault. Period. Our union is a paper tiger....
Who do we think we are that we DESERVE better after our performance in the past? This TA isn't insulting, what's insulting is guys calling CRS ASKING if they need help during 4a2b, what's insulting is guys picking up trips during 4a2b, what's insulting is bidding a new aircraft without a pay rate (including MEC members), what's insulting is ALPA telling us that the LOA is the "best we can get", what's insulting is that we still supported Fuel Sense during 4a2b....
This will pass, because they are dangling a 3% carrot, and a LOA "doesn't affect me" attitude.
Last edited by magic rat; 02-10-2011 at 11:21 AM. Reason: added a few more thoughts
02-10-2011, 11:18 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Originally Posted by magic rat
After sleeping on it, here's some random thoughts. NPRM results aren't out yet, so, they can't negotiate those sections until new rules are in effect. Makes sense.
SS states in his video message, "...major economic portions of contract not resolved..."
What could that mean?
They want new LOA in order to fill FDA with more seniority. ALPA figures get us a payraise now, get them (and us) their new LOA.
I don't understand why so many are mad at the "bonus"? Yea it sux!! But, honestly, what did you all expect? Thousands of dollars in bonus to make up for 4a2b? We grieved it, they won it!! It's OVER!!
3%...what do you want? 4-5-6%? if you think we'd get anything more than 3%, you need to go pee in a bottle.
It is what it is...
We had leverage with the LOA last time and didn't use it, we had leverage with 777 and didn't use it, we had the 'homefield' advantage during 4a2b and instead went boldly above and beyond to help company out and stab eachother in the back.
It's our fault. Period. Our union is a paper tiger....
This will pass, because they are dangling a 3% carrot, and a LOA "doesn't affect me" attitude.
SS states in his video message, "...major economic portions of contract not resolved..."
What could that mean?
They want new LOA in order to fill FDA with more seniority. ALPA figures get us a payraise now, get them (and us) their new LOA.
I don't understand why so many are mad at the "bonus"? Yea it sux!! But, honestly, what did you all expect? Thousands of dollars in bonus to make up for 4a2b? We grieved it, they won it!! It's OVER!!
3%...what do you want? 4-5-6%? if you think we'd get anything more than 3%, you need to go pee in a bottle.
It is what it is...
We had leverage with the LOA last time and didn't use it, we had leverage with 777 and didn't use it, we had the 'homefield' advantage during 4a2b and instead went boldly above and beyond to help company out and stab eachother in the back.
It's our fault. Period. Our union is a paper tiger....
This will pass, because they are dangling a 3% carrot, and a LOA "doesn't affect me" attitude.
I agree with you, though. It'll pass. I'm sticking with my 68% forecast.
Last edited by Busboy; 02-10-2011 at 12:33 PM.
02-10-2011, 11:22 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Originally Posted by magic rat
what's insulting is that we still supported Fuel Sense during 4a2b....
02-10-2011, 11:31 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: B-777
Posts: 177
Man, I have a friend who's a poolie. The $2000 bucks a month is a damn joke now. What's it been? 25 years since that was changed?
Also, why the change in probation time? What gives?
Did the company want that really badly?
Also, why the change in probation time? What gives?
Did the company want that really badly?
02-10-2011, 12:07 PM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
Originally Posted by magic rat
After sleeping on it, here's some random thoughts. NPRM results aren't out yet, so, they can't negotiate those sections until new rules are in effect. Makes sense.
SS states in his video message, "...major economic portions of contract not resolved..."
What could that mean?
They want new LOA in order to fill FDA with more seniority. ALPA figures get us a payraise now, get them (and us) their new LOA.
I don't understand why so many are mad at the "bonus"? Yea it sux!! But, honestly, what did you all expect? Thousands of dollars in bonus to make up for 4a2b? We grieved it, they won it!! It's OVER!!
3%...what do you want? 4-5-6%? if you think we'd get anything more than 3%, you need to go pee in a bottle.
It is what it is...
We had leverage with the LOA last time and didn't use it, we had leverage with 777 and didn't use it, we had the 'homefield' advantage during 4a2b and instead went boldly above and beyond to help company out and stab eachother in the back.
It's our fault. Period. Our union is a paper tiger....
Who do we think we are that we DESERVE better after our performance in the past? This TA isn't insulting, what's insulting is guys calling CRS ASKING if they need help during 4a2b, what's insulting is guys picking up trips during 4a2b, what's insulting is bidding a new aircraft without a pay rate (including MEC members), what's insulting is ALPA telling us that the LOA is the "best we can get", what's insulting is that we still supported Fuel Sense during 4a2b....
This will pass, because they are dangling a 3% carrot, and a LOA "doesn't affect me" attitude.
SS states in his video message, "...major economic portions of contract not resolved..."
What could that mean?
They want new LOA in order to fill FDA with more seniority. ALPA figures get us a payraise now, get them (and us) their new LOA.
I don't understand why so many are mad at the "bonus"? Yea it sux!! But, honestly, what did you all expect? Thousands of dollars in bonus to make up for 4a2b? We grieved it, they won it!! It's OVER!!
3%...what do you want? 4-5-6%? if you think we'd get anything more than 3%, you need to go pee in a bottle.
It is what it is...
We had leverage with the LOA last time and didn't use it, we had leverage with 777 and didn't use it, we had the 'homefield' advantage during 4a2b and instead went boldly above and beyond to help company out and stab eachother in the back.
It's our fault. Period. Our union is a paper tiger....
Who do we think we are that we DESERVE better after our performance in the past? This TA isn't insulting, what's insulting is guys calling CRS ASKING if they need help during 4a2b, what's insulting is guys picking up trips during 4a2b, what's insulting is bidding a new aircraft without a pay rate (including MEC members), what's insulting is ALPA telling us that the LOA is the "best we can get", what's insulting is that we still supported Fuel Sense during 4a2b....
This will pass, because they are dangling a 3% carrot, and a LOA "doesn't affect me" attitude.
The past is the past. I agree that the NPRM will shape much of our contract. However, there are certainly some issues that could be addressed in these sections. 4.A.2.b. could have been fixed or thrown out.
I don't really care if the FDA LOA ever get's fixed. Those that bid it decided that the deal was good enough for them. It's the company's problem. How many guys are collecting HKG passover pay? It costs them a whole lot of money to fly SIBA. The status quo works good for me.
I'm not going to be held hostage for ASAP and FOQA. These are needed and our safety record is the pits. If the company is serious about safety, they will go ahead with these agreements.
What I see is the company abusing many parts of our contract and they want a deal on the FDAs. I completed my survey last year, and this in no way comes close to what I thought was important.
Is it better than nothing? My guess is that we will see the 3% back pay (signing bonus or whatever they call it) when we finish a contract. I can wait for it. It really amounts to a $1500 check and about a $300 month raise. After taxes, more like $1000 and $200. I could live with a 3% as long as they fix other parts of the contract, which they haven't....
02-10-2011, 02:47 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by GreaseA6
Ok a couple of FDA things that are not getting noticed but by no means all inclusive:
1. Currently no exit other than a system bid or personal emergency. Section N of the LOA has an exit strategy if you want out and no bid available.
2.Deadhead by surface transportation. Only 4 city pairs for trains and the only one in China is CAN-HKG. You can deviate.
3. Deadhead bank for surface transportation. currently NONE.
New LOA:
Train deadheads shall create a deviation bank in the same manner as
airline tickets. In no event shall the deviation bank credit for such train
deadheads be less than $150 per deadhead.
With respect to ground transportation between HKG-CAN, deadheads
by surface transportation other than a train shall create a deviation
bank in the same manner as airline tickets. In no event shall the
deviation bank credit for such surface transportation deadheads be
less than $150 per deadhead.
4. Increased rental allotment in HKG from $2700 to $4500.
5. Cost of living protection.
6. Finally a remail provision to your home by the world's leading express deilvery service to its own employees.
7. Education expense reimbursement. Currently NONE.
…up to $5,000 per child (but not
to exceed $10,000 per family) per school year.
Not saying yea or nay, just saying read it. If I'm wrong tell me, I know you will anyway.
1. Currently no exit other than a system bid or personal emergency. Section N of the LOA has an exit strategy if you want out and no bid available.
2.Deadhead by surface transportation. Only 4 city pairs for trains and the only one in China is CAN-HKG. You can deviate.
3. Deadhead bank for surface transportation. currently NONE.
New LOA:
Train deadheads shall create a deviation bank in the same manner as
airline tickets. In no event shall the deviation bank credit for such train
deadheads be less than $150 per deadhead.
With respect to ground transportation between HKG-CAN, deadheads
by surface transportation other than a train shall create a deviation
bank in the same manner as airline tickets. In no event shall the
deviation bank credit for such surface transportation deadheads be
less than $150 per deadhead.
4. Increased rental allotment in HKG from $2700 to $4500.
5. Cost of living protection.
6. Finally a remail provision to your home by the world's leading express deilvery service to its own employees.
7. Education expense reimbursement. Currently NONE.
…up to $5,000 per child (but not
to exceed $10,000 per family) per school year.
Not saying yea or nay, just saying read it. If I'm wrong tell me, I know you will anyway.
The HGK FDA went extremely junior and if this TA is passed, you guys will get a lot of money.
Nothing against you but this is a no vote from me.
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