MACH84

"I'd like to see what a bidpack is going to look like when this is fully implemented.
__________________
This is a great idea gentleman, OF COURSE, that is 14 months from now, Jan 2008.

MACH84

"we also took polls on what we wanted and the offer was put together and in plain view on the website...so then the company coughs up the extra 200 million and mach84 wants to burn down the union...unbelievable!!!"

Dear Captain Mark

I do not want to burn the union, I am criticism the Union for being to political and putting the Agency Shop close end clause in front of other economic improvements, and then offering waiver to non members.

The cost to us, delaying until JAN 2008 other significant work rules improvements, a miserable 1 % Bfund increase and no options or significant change on our A fund.

av8rmike

Riiiiigggghhhhhttttt....

Let's review:

ALPA OCT05: 100*8%=108
ALPA OCT06: 108*4%=112.32
ALPA OCT07: 112.32*4%=116.81
ALPA OCT08: 116.81*4%= 121.49

It also called for a 7% Retro Pay.

Compart to the TA:

TA OCT06: 100*9%=109
TA OCT07: 109*3%=112.27
TA OCT08: 112.27*3%=115.64
TA OCT09: 115.64*3%=119.11

The TA "Signing Bonus" works out to 3.3% per year from the expiration of the last contract.

Your assertion about the time value of money is correct, but it ain't in our favor here...

If you want to negate my pay only argument, at least lets be honest about it and show the numbers for what they really are.

As far as seat movement to chase the pay, I don't see that as an acceptable alternative to my Union getting equal pay per day (with the exception of long block hours). I see this as a 'One Airline' (MD11) contract...

MX727

You keep writing about Agency Shop. Capt. Chimeti flat out stated that there was no negotiation over section 29. The company didn't care one way or another. It didn't cost us a thing. They never said "if you get this, we want that." ALPA national attorneys told our guys the language was going to have to have the exemption.

This is understandably an emotional issue which we all understand doesn't seem fair, but there is NO reason to give it a second glance. The free loader list will never get bigger. It's over. No more new hires skating out, no more quitting over one issue. We won. We got 100% of what can be acheived in Agency Shop. Agency Shop was a Grand Slam Homerun. There is nothing else, nothing, that we could have got for it.

There is a huge change to our A fund. Section 28.A.3 forces the company to report to us the status of our A fund every month. Our R & I committee will be able to see if they are funding it or not. No one else had it, and they got shocked when they found out their pensions were underfunded.

For those who will lament that we didn't get a lump sum payout, you need to research why Delta was able to turn their plan over to the PBGC. They had several billion dollars in the account, but couldn't afford a run on the bank. They knew if they unfroze the plan, it would be drained. Human nature. Furthermore, once you have a lump sum plan, you can never take it away from the members. Not having a lump sum actually protects you from a panicked pilot group. The only plan that USAir cancelled was the pilots'. Why? It was the only plan that had a lump sum payout.

RedeyeAV8r

The pilot plan was the only plan that Paid more to it's retirees than the PBGC payout.

F/A's and Rampites can work to 65..............Pliots can't (currently)

The PBCG cap on retirement Pay is roughly 27,700 if you retire at 60 and 45,000K if you retire at 65. No FA plans or Rampite plans that I know of were going to pay their employees more than this...........or not significantly more.

The Pilot plans however, paid much more........................

It would have cost the Company more and they would have had a harder time convincing the BK judges to terminate all the plans.

At Delta, the Pilots are the only Unionized group. They are the only ones who had a contract. The company also had and still has the ability to unilateraly change other employees' benefits.

Why is it again you think DELTA, USAir wanted to terminate the Pilot Plans?

RedeyeAV8r

Here is another possible hidden landmine


Section 25 Scheduling
b. information related to open time as follows:
i. in crew positions where the Company is using automated systems for trip assignment and trading (currently DReAM and the automated trip trade system), and such systems are functioning, all open time in the current bid period (and in the next bid period after open time is released) shall be visible in “real time,” except during periods when:
(a) the daily assignment process is taking place.
(b) the system(s) is paused to allow manual processing functions; or
(c) the system(s) affecting open time administration is not running due to system maintenance, upgrades, etc.
ii. in crew positions where such automated system(s) is not functioning, trip pairings more than 40.5 hours prior to showtime shall be visible to pilots accessing the open time interface.
iii. a trip(s) may be frozen to allow assignment by CRS. When a trip is frozen, it will be visible, but displayed in a manner indicating that it is available only to CRS.

Why would CRS Freeze a trip?

The only reason off hand I can think of is Training.

Does this mean CRS can withold or designate trips for Training and IOE before they are published or otherwise open for all to BID on? Can they designate a otherwise Open time trip for Training or MGT only?? If so doesn't this abrogate Seniority?

This could mean a loss of that GOOD DEAL where we get bumped for training with pay.............or even worse not get to BID on a nice tripp you want to fly because CRS has "Frozen" it.

Ask the Folks in the know.........Thanks

FoxHunter

You may be correct about saving a trip for training but I believe this is regarding open time.

RedeyeAV8r

Exactly.......during the 36 hour window or any time a trip is in open time.

I have often ( a couple of times actually) picked up a STN trip in open time.
The trip showed 2 J/Strs.......a Check Airman and Student.

After I was awarded the trip I was sent a VIPS message saying I was removed from the trip for Training Bump.

A good deal.............that may be lost.

FR8Hauler

Go to the roadshow before you form your opinion. This is a 375 page document which I doubt very serioulsy you have read. Listen to what your negotiating committee (which everyone was so militant in their support for in the past) has to say before you go off half cocked and make rash statements.

ClutchCargo

FedEx is incorporated in Delaware. I guess all those NWA guys domiciled in MEM could stop paying dues with no reprecussions?

An agency shop and a closed shop are not the same thing.