Road show high lights
09-13-2006, 02:28 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,433
More notes from another ...
"Went to the union meeting today in Memphis to hear the latest on the TA. Its technically not a roadshow I guess because they haven't had enough time to put togther a real road show yet. Some very interesting info though, and I urge everyone to get to one of these meetings/road shows if you can. There is nothing like getting the details on the negotiations right from the horses mouth.
Dave Webb said that there would be no job aide in the first couple of weeks to explain the changes and no plain language explanations. This was a conscientious decision because they want us to read the contract. Evidently the contract enforcement folks get several calls a day with questions that a simple reading of the contract would answer. They want us to read the actual contract because that is what we are voting on, not a bunch of bullets or explanations.
Bob C went over some good info. Overall, he seemed amazed that we were able to get the gains that we did. The union estimates that the value of the deal offered by the company to the Commercial Appeal on Apr 29 was worth about $443M for the 4 year deal (CY 2004 dollars). They also estimate that the TA has about $1B (CY 2007 dollars, a slight apples to oranges but still worth noting) in improvements over the 4 years.
Biggest changes are in the work rules, the new rig and the over 8 hour block provisions will really multiply real earnings improvements for the international folks.
Bonus was worth 90 Mil, but the company wanted to only pay half up front. Union said add interest then, and boom it went up to 95. Union also wanted it to be pensionable, boom it went up to 103M. Apparently the union decided how it would be divided up. They gave up a little on the A380 rates and the international override and included 737 and 757 in the narrow body pay scales to get the bonus done.
Retirement: he estimated 40 M in improvements. The B plan hike occured on the last day of negotiations.
Medical: we got what we were asking for, est $30 Mil improvement. HRAs for those 53 and older, a 43M trust fund for post medicare retirement folks. Rates fixed for the life of the contract, total lifetime benefit cap raised to 3 Mil per pilot.
Scope: Huge deal, cornerstone issue. He said be sure to really read Section 1. We did well there.
Training: ALPA training standard.
Life Ins: increase in amount of company funded life insurance with a opt out option to reduce tax implications if so inclined.
Anyway, not to steal too much of their thunder, but I was very impressed with the presentation. There were a lot of questions about the grid penalties and all that but they don't have too many answers on that yet, we have to wait and see how it pans out. Basically the company will have to pay for the numerous revisions on the international trips.
Oh yeah, on the agency shop, they did mention that not including the grandfather clause could open up the company and union to lawsuits about changing the conditions of employment (just as you said Purpled), so that answered my biggest question.
FJ"
Dave Webb said that there would be no job aide in the first couple of weeks to explain the changes and no plain language explanations. This was a conscientious decision because they want us to read the contract. Evidently the contract enforcement folks get several calls a day with questions that a simple reading of the contract would answer. They want us to read the actual contract because that is what we are voting on, not a bunch of bullets or explanations.
Bob C went over some good info. Overall, he seemed amazed that we were able to get the gains that we did. The union estimates that the value of the deal offered by the company to the Commercial Appeal on Apr 29 was worth about $443M for the 4 year deal (CY 2004 dollars). They also estimate that the TA has about $1B (CY 2007 dollars, a slight apples to oranges but still worth noting) in improvements over the 4 years.
Biggest changes are in the work rules, the new rig and the over 8 hour block provisions will really multiply real earnings improvements for the international folks.
Bonus was worth 90 Mil, but the company wanted to only pay half up front. Union said add interest then, and boom it went up to 95. Union also wanted it to be pensionable, boom it went up to 103M. Apparently the union decided how it would be divided up. They gave up a little on the A380 rates and the international override and included 737 and 757 in the narrow body pay scales to get the bonus done.
Retirement: he estimated 40 M in improvements. The B plan hike occured on the last day of negotiations.
Medical: we got what we were asking for, est $30 Mil improvement. HRAs for those 53 and older, a 43M trust fund for post medicare retirement folks. Rates fixed for the life of the contract, total lifetime benefit cap raised to 3 Mil per pilot.
Scope: Huge deal, cornerstone issue. He said be sure to really read Section 1. We did well there.
Training: ALPA training standard.
Life Ins: increase in amount of company funded life insurance with a opt out option to reduce tax implications if so inclined.
Anyway, not to steal too much of their thunder, but I was very impressed with the presentation. There were a lot of questions about the grid penalties and all that but they don't have too many answers on that yet, we have to wait and see how it pans out. Basically the company will have to pay for the numerous revisions on the international trips.
Oh yeah, on the agency shop, they did mention that not including the grandfather clause could open up the company and union to lawsuits about changing the conditions of employment (just as you said Purpled), so that answered my biggest question.
FJ"
09-13-2006, 02:41 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: MD-11 Capt
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by KnightFlyer
"They gave up a little on the A380 rates and the international override and included 737 and 757 in the narrow body pay scales to get the bonus done."
09-13-2006, 03:37 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD-11/10 Captain
Posts: 533
Originally Posted by MD114Ever
This may be the big give back that people are trying to find. If the rumors are correct of as many as 60 757s being announced once the contract is ratified, then we will have a much higher ratio of narrow body pilots/wide body pilots than we currently have or project to have. This would shift the two tiered pay scale in the company's favor.
09-13-2006, 05:55 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by Ranger
I don't think so. Unless I'm missing something, the 757/737's (whichever actually shows up in pretty purple paint) will replace the 727's. If that were to happen on a one for one basis there would be FEWER narrow body folks because the f/e would go away. The ratio would be lower.
09-13-2006, 06:07 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by Ranger
I don't think so. Unless I'm missing something, the 757/737's (whichever actually shows up in pretty purple paint) will replace the 727's. If that were to happen on a one for one basis there would be FEWER narrow body folks because the f/e would go away. The ratio would be lower.
Except that we will need 1/3 less Narrow body crew members.....if we go 1 for 1......
09-14-2006, 05:09 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: ANC-Based MD-11 FO
Posts: 328
Just a thought on our compensation section:
A lot of folks are upset at not getting more than what appears to be a cost of living increase. However, I recall our negotiating priorities did not include compensation. And our priorities were determined by survey results taken before we began negotiating. So what's the point in being upset about something that wasn't that important to the masses in the first place?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make more per hour like everyone else. I just think it sounds shallow to criticize an issue we all collectively determined was not a cornerstone in our negotiations. Okay, flame me.
A lot of folks are upset at not getting more than what appears to be a cost of living increase. However, I recall our negotiating priorities did not include compensation. And our priorities were determined by survey results taken before we began negotiating. So what's the point in being upset about something that wasn't that important to the masses in the first place?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make more per hour like everyone else. I just think it sounds shallow to criticize an issue we all collectively determined was not a cornerstone in our negotiations. Okay, flame me.
09-14-2006, 05:23 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by FDXFLYR
Just a thought on our compensation section:
A lot of folks are upset at not getting more than what appears to be a cost of living increase. However, I recall our negotiating priorities did not include compensation. And our priorities were determined by survey results taken before we began negotiating. So what's the point in being upset about something that wasn't that important to the masses in the first place?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make more per hour like everyone else. I just think it sounds shallow to criticize an issue we all collectively determined was not a cornerstone in our negotiations. Okay, flame me.
A lot of folks are upset at not getting more than what appears to be a cost of living increase. However, I recall our negotiating priorities did not include compensation. And our priorities were determined by survey results taken before we began negotiating. So what's the point in being upset about something that wasn't that important to the masses in the first place?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make more per hour like everyone else. I just think it sounds shallow to criticize an issue we all collectively determined was not a cornerstone in our negotiations. Okay, flame me.
09-14-2006, 07:10 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD-11/10 Captain
Posts: 533
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
Except that we will need 1/3 less Narrow body crew members.....if we go 1 for 1......
By the way, EVERYBODY WHO CAN MAKE IT NEEDS TO ATTEND A ROAD SHOW. PERIOD. THE FOG LIFTS WHEN YOU HEAR FROM THE UNION GUYS AND YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO ASK YOUR QUESTIONS. AT THE RISK OF REPEATING MYSELF- GO TO A ROAD SHOW.
09-15-2006, 04:56 AM
#29
done, gone skiing
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Lots left to fix for 2010
Attending a roadshow is good, the good points will be brought out, front and center. 
That said, there are areas where the contract left some "common complaints" untouched. Deviation; no changes, even though we've *****ed the last 6 years about the constraints on the dev bank; in some ways it was better pre contract. Hours of service; I can't for the life of me see any major improvements in INTL duty limits. I guess understanding the GRID would help, still see the hated (dreaded??) 16 hour limits ( now referred to FAR limits) with an operational emergency is declared. No penalties for what is a "operational emergency, still the same gray area we've had before.
Maybe I need to read it more carefully, or just attend more roadshows!
That said, there are areas where the contract left some "common complaints" untouched. Deviation; no changes, even though we've *****ed the last 6 years about the constraints on the dev bank; in some ways it was better pre contract. Hours of service; I can't for the life of me see any major improvements in INTL duty limits. I guess understanding the GRID would help, still see the hated (dreaded??) 16 hour limits ( now referred to FAR limits) with an operational emergency is declared. No penalties for what is a "operational emergency, still the same gray area we've had before. Maybe I need to read it more carefully, or just attend more roadshows!
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