MaxKts

Heck, my wife doesn't like sleeping with me! Why would she want to sleep with a FLEX guy?

RedeyeAV8r

He is richer than you.....

TonyC

I'm going to try real hard to figure out what you're saying, or trying to say, so I can form an appropriate response. If your writing skills are a reflection of your other language skills, like reading, then I can understand your confusion.

One line at a time here:

"Tony If you are on reserve and are launched on a 15/19 day trip,do you work every one of those day's."

Umm, yes. If you launch on a 15 day trip, you work 15 days. While I don't get the point of your question, I'll make a comment about flexes that seems close. A Flex Instructor will work 15 days during a 4-week bid month, too. Depending on whether it's the first month after returning from a month of Flexing to the line or not, 1 or 2 of those 15 days will be FLY days where he is expected to PDO bump a trip to actually fly an airplane. If he is a Captain or First Officer Flex, he'll use those 5 or 6 fly days every 3 bid periods to maintain landing currency, and not much more.

Other than those Fly days where he might actually spend the night in a hotel, each of those 15 or 19 days a month will conclude with him driving back to his home or crashpad to spend time with his family. And yet, I'll still concede that it qualifies as work.


"How much does each away from base count fpr leveling. "

I think you're asking how much that hypothetical 15/19 day trip counts for leveling. Well, that's pretty simple. The Credit Hours for that trip will count towards leveling. Leveling would be a moot point, since the trip would fill the month. Credit Hours would accrue at 100% up to the RLG, and 150% above the RLG. YOU, too, can read about this in Section 4.


"The reason the current 6 days for off site is in the current contract, was to force the company to use there resorces fairely,just like many International guys would like to see MPPD. "

I'm not sure what you mean by "6 days for off site" - - could you be referring to the current language that stipulates that the maximum number of duty days on a flex instructor's schedule (when instructing at a location other than his assigned training base) shall be determined by dividing his pay-only BLG (plus, up to 5 days of carryover if bid) by 6 CH rounded to the nearest whole number? This is where I find "6" and "days" and "off site" (or words which mean "off site") in the same paragraph, so I'm assuming this is the topic of which you speak. I'm not psychic, so correct me if I'm wrong.


If I'm on the right track, you can read my above posts to this point. I'll also point out that Paragraph 11.N.10 stipulates that EVERY day away from his base is considered a Duty Day for purposes of scheduling and compensation. in other words, his peer in the school house might work Monday through Friday, take the weekend off, and work another Monday through Friday. He, on the other hand, might Deadhead to LAX on Monday, use Tuesday to recover, Instruct an event on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, take the weekend off, instruct Monday through Thursday, and deadhead home on Friday. He gets credit for 12 days of work, whereas his peer in the schoolhouse got credit for 10.

Talk to me again about fair.



"As for the credibality gains, why should the flexes suffer because the company will not man the training department properly."

Flexes suffer from credibility issues because they don't fly enough. In some cases, it is by their own choice. Many instructors prefer the stay-at-home lifestyle that the job allows, and don't LIKE traipsing over to the Philippines to see what the "real world" is like. In many more cases, though, they can't because the training schedule simply won't allow it. Instructors who insist on getting their 1 month out of 3 flying the line are shown the proverbial door. (Show me where the contract contains a grievance process for THAT abrogation, and I'll retract my criticism.) The Company has never manned the training departments to the level that will allow every instructor the opportunity to Flex to the line every three months, and I doubt they ever intend to. Why SHOULD they? They'd just have to pay Override to 33% more Instructors.

The provisions of this TA REQUIRE that the Instructors fly more, and it provides avenues ("Super Flex") for conscientious Instructors to get out there where the rubber meets the road and teach from experience.


"You also falied to mention the SO flexes who actually take up to a $400 cut in overide. "

OK, let's test your reading comprehension here. WHERE do you read about a $400 cut in override?

Since you're talking about SO flexes in particular, let's look at Flex Instructor compensation in 11.M.18. (New paragraph numbering, used to be 11.N.18 - - worthy of a "NO" vote right there! ) Bid period override is in subparagraph c.ii. Current contract has 4 year groups, 1 through 4, beginning at $600 and going up $100 per year with a maximum of $900. Now, if for some reason you've been flexing as a Second Officer for 4 years, you're receiving $900 override per bid period.

Since it's so easy to notice the changes in the Adobe versions on the website, we can clearly see the only change to this subparagraph is the deletion of the fourth year override rate, and the change of the third to read "Year 3 and above". How much does that Second Officer get for flexing per bid period for override under the TA? That's right, $800.

I helped my son with his math homework before he got on the bus this morning - - he's in the 2nd grade. Zachary, how much is 9 minus 8? One. He rolled his eyes at me to convey how ridiculously bored he was with that stuff.

One small segment of the Flex instructors take a $100 per month hit - - do I like it? Nope. It goes in the negative column. But it goes as what it is, and not some trumped up, rumor-infested version of bitterness and anger. It's not $400.


"Did anyone else take a pay cut under this T/A. How is that fair."

I don't know. I haven't finished reading it yet. While not a pay cut, it looks like a lot of folks will be paying taxes that they haven't been paying on certain commuting expenses. (Arguably, they should have been paying them, but that's beside the point.) Is that fair?

It is fair because this a COLLECTIVE bargaining agreement achieved in a process called COLLECTIVE bargaining. It means it's an agreement for WE, not ME. Some things will be better for me, and some things will be better for you, and some things might be distasteful to us both. But if it all comes together for the betterment of us all, then it's fair.


Speaking of "fair" and 2nd graders, I've been having to explain that to him a lot lately, too.



.

Bitme

Now Now Tony, don't let it be know that second grade mentalities can do this job or Fred will have a field day next time around.

Carlos Abundis

.....................

MX727

Well, if a line pilot were to go to DH to LAX, get 24 hours off, fly LAX-OAK-LAX the next three nights, weekend layover, four more hub-turns, etc., he would get 6 hours a day, while the guy back in MEM, doing airport stby gets R-value.

Either way, Flex or Line, you are in LAX away from your family.

I'm not wound up about this at all, but I can see this part of their argument. I also feel that LCA's should get a higher override. It's a tough job and there is no "crash reset" on the line.

Now, for the guys who want to whine at how easy instructor's have it and how much money they make, I believe there are postings open. I think that most people realize that the line pilot job is the greatest of all.

av8rmike

Thanks, MX727. Finally someone posting something reasonable about flexes. Those of you who think it's sooo easy and such a cushy deal - apply. Be careful of what you wish for, though. I would be HAPPY to go toe to toe with ANY of you out there about FOM, MEL, CFM Chapters 3,4,7,8... You pick. You can even study for a few days. I'll bet a case of (good) beer I'll whoop your a@@. I'm not bragging, I just take my Flex job very seriously. I study ALL the F'ng time. Do you? Is it fun? NO. What do you call a Flex who doesn't study all the time? A chitty instructor and someone who needs to go back to the line.

Do I wish I could fly half the month and teach the other half? You bet. I love flying, too. Do my skills get rusty? Yep. How do I maintain currency? Fly on my off days... As TonyC pointed out, they'd show you the door if you insisted on flying every other month. I know I'm not speaking for all Flexes, but the vast majority work HARD to deliver a great product. Sure makes ya feel all warm inside knowing the love that's out there in return... Like I said earlier, if it's such a great deal, y'all come on down now, ya hear?!

RAC396

What he said

Huck

I think the good ones deserve every penny they can get.

And bad ones need their asses kicked back to the line. But I've only had one of those, and I've done the Boeing, the 10 and the 11 here.

RedeyeAV8r

Not really sure where you are heading.......Is this a "My D**K is bigger than yours" or "I'm tougher than you are" kind of thing?

Just go toe to toe with the line dawgs doing the VOR to SFS in a rain storm.
Or simply flying intra China..or how bout just flying. Or something easy........like landing the jet.

Relax JR no one is saying you guys don't work over there in the school house.
I believe the point of this post was that FLEX guys are up in arms about section 11.

My point still stands, and I'll wager you your case of Beer.
WHen the dust settles from the TA vote. You ain't gonna hear a ROAR and stampede of the FLEX guys running from the School house door to return to the line. Bring it on JR