NJA vs FDX
08-24-2011, 08:36 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 482
If you have a fedex job offer I would say come on over. If you only have a "heavy hitter" sponsor and a few recs, I would say go either way, if you are asking should you start from scratch with no recs and try for Fedex I would stay, as best case two or three years to get a job. I assume you meant 60% of Capts so around 30% overall? How many are on furlough at NJA.
Living in domicile at FDX is pretty sweet
Living in domicile at FDX is pretty sweet
08-24-2011, 08:45 AM
#12
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Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 202
I came from a sweet G-IV corp job to FDX in '05. So far, according to my calcs, I'm still waaaaaaaaay behind on lost earnings, albeit I am finally catching up. My 1st yr was 28k (727 SO) and my 2nd was 45k (727 SO). Most will do better than those numbers, ymmv.
Now life is pretty good as seniority is finally starting to move and the money is very good. Overall, IMO the flexibility here is the best part of the job (assuming you are not on reserve). If you feel like working 1 day, 14 days or anywhere in between, it's possible here, which is great. Also, if you want to see the world, this is the place to do it. Asia, Europe, SA, whatever, it's possible here.
If I had to do it again, I don't know which direction I'd go. But this is an improvement because if you had asked me the same question 2-3 years ago I would have said "no way", so hopefully this is a reflection of a positive trend.
Now life is pretty good as seniority is finally starting to move and the money is very good. Overall, IMO the flexibility here is the best part of the job (assuming you are not on reserve). If you feel like working 1 day, 14 days or anywhere in between, it's possible here, which is great. Also, if you want to see the world, this is the place to do it. Asia, Europe, SA, whatever, it's possible here.
If I had to do it again, I don't know which direction I'd go. But this is an improvement because if you had asked me the same question 2-3 years ago I would have said "no way", so hopefully this is a reflection of a positive trend.
08-24-2011, 02:10 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by capt_zman
... My 1st yr was 28k (727 SO) and my 2nd was 45k (727 SO). Most will do better than those numbers, ymmv....
I believe first year 727 SO rate was about $52 per hour back then, and a little over $60 an hour now ---- that should equate to about $54K per year once on the line.
2nd year SO pay is around $78 an hour --- but, most guys hired now will either be on narrow body FO pay (~$117 an hour) or wide body FO pay (~$143 an hour) on their 2nd year --- depending on what domicile you bid.
You can safely estimate you'll get 900 hrs per year with min BLG + 4 recurrent training days per year....thus, 2nd year pay could range from $70K to $105K to $128K...plus, A fund and B fund benefits.
One shouldn't sweat going to ANC, HKG or CGN if you don't want to --- they only take volunteers.
08-24-2011, 02:22 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,222
At first I thought this would be a "if hired by NJA or Fedex where would you go?" Then I was gonna say, maybe in 10 years NJA "may" hire, may not...
Bottom line...Fedex, hands down... 2+ years ago I'd have said stay at NJA, no brainer....but not anymore.... When Santulli left, so did the culture at NJA..Now it's run like every other company, only worse because NJA has way too many customers that it still will lose over the next couple of years. And current management has absolutely no clue how to keep them and gain new owners..They are basically clueless.. NJA will be a "low cost" fractional soon...
Bottom line...Fedex, hands down... 2+ years ago I'd have said stay at NJA, no brainer....but not anymore.... When Santulli left, so did the culture at NJA..Now it's run like every other company, only worse because NJA has way too many customers that it still will lose over the next couple of years. And current management has absolutely no clue how to keep them and gain new owners..They are basically clueless.. NJA will be a "low cost" fractional soon...
08-24-2011, 05:52 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by Pakagecheck
A very good friend works there in the G-V division. Loves it. We did a comparison between our 2 jobs last year and here is a basic breakdown. Please understand this is at the current contract and economy and could change anytime. It is just a snapshot.
Pay
Fedex take the hourly and multiply it by 1000 to get an accurate annual salary. So, around 6th year wb F/O, he made up what he lost and started to gain. This was him being a WB f/o year 3.
Retirement
A plan - figured him being at Fedex for 20 years so 40% of his ave high 5. All extra since NJ doesn't have this.
401k/B plan - NJ has the 401 K plus matching. Purple has a whole $500 matching for it's 401k, but the B plan is 7%. So as a WB f/o the B plan would be at least 7-8k more a year than the 401k matching.
Medical - equivalent
Days of work (average)
My Bud does the 7/7. so he works 26 weeks a year or 182 days
Fedex - 8 4 wk months(ave 12 days) and 4 5 week months(ave 15 days) = 156 days
reserve(15 days) (19 days) = 196 days
I'm at 80% as a captain and I was sched to work 160 days last year. We have some of the best trips in the industry, but we definitely have some of the worst also! But, many of my trips showed me working but being able to be flexible on the front end deadheads or back end deadheads, I was able to significantly lower that number. by more than a day a month.
Commute - NJs deadheads you to and from work. On your work day! nice! Fedex has many deadheads available that are enticing if you don't live in domicile (which I don't).
Vacation - he and I had greater than 10 years so we both had 4 weeks. Fedex gives you a 5th week at 20 yrs.
Seniority - Correct me if I am wrong but once you are a captain, he gave me the impression that seniority didn't have anything to do with the trips or your schedule.
Fedex - Everything is based on it.
Sick leave - I forget what he got but I get 72 hours (equiv to one 4 wk month a year)
Overall, he and I agreed that my pay was better while working less. My retirement was much better. We both really liked our jobs.
Solution - he made his wife get a job and that balanced it out somewhat.
This was just a comparison between he and I. I hope this information helps!
Cheers
Pakage
Pay
Fedex take the hourly and multiply it by 1000 to get an accurate annual salary. So, around 6th year wb F/O, he made up what he lost and started to gain. This was him being a WB f/o year 3.
Retirement
A plan - figured him being at Fedex for 20 years so 40% of his ave high 5. All extra since NJ doesn't have this.
401k/B plan - NJ has the 401 K plus matching. Purple has a whole $500 matching for it's 401k, but the B plan is 7%. So as a WB f/o the B plan would be at least 7-8k more a year than the 401k matching.
Medical - equivalent
Days of work (average)
My Bud does the 7/7. so he works 26 weeks a year or 182 days
Fedex - 8 4 wk months(ave 12 days) and 4 5 week months(ave 15 days) = 156 days
reserve(15 days) (19 days) = 196 days
I'm at 80% as a captain and I was sched to work 160 days last year. We have some of the best trips in the industry, but we definitely have some of the worst also! But, many of my trips showed me working but being able to be flexible on the front end deadheads or back end deadheads, I was able to significantly lower that number. by more than a day a month.
Commute - NJs deadheads you to and from work. On your work day! nice! Fedex has many deadheads available that are enticing if you don't live in domicile (which I don't).
Vacation - he and I had greater than 10 years so we both had 4 weeks. Fedex gives you a 5th week at 20 yrs.
Seniority - Correct me if I am wrong but once you are a captain, he gave me the impression that seniority didn't have anything to do with the trips or your schedule.
Fedex - Everything is based on it.
Sick leave - I forget what he got but I get 72 hours (equiv to one 4 wk month a year)
Overall, he and I agreed that my pay was better while working less. My retirement was much better. We both really liked our jobs.
Solution - he made his wife get a job and that balanced it out somewhat.
This was just a comparison between he and I. I hope this information helps!
Cheers
Pakage
08-24-2011, 06:01 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by capt_zman
My 1st yr was 28k (727 SO) and my 2nd was 45k (727 SO). Most will do better than those numbers, ymmv.
Lets look at this closely. Even being pessimistic, you should not be on training pay for more than 3 months. So lets start out with $6K (3 x $2k.) The rest of the 9 months should be 6 4wk months and 3 5wk months. Min guarantee would be 663 hrs ([6 x 68]+[3x85].) Since 1st year SO or narrow body FO pays $61.17, so that adds up to $40555, for a total of $46.5K for the year. This is the absolute minimum (barring another 2a4b salary BLG reduction) you can earn, assuming your line, reserve or flying, never exceeds the minimum guarantee. Fly any extra, train on days off, or get drafted, and your salary goes up accordingly. I made over $50k my 1st year, back in 99.
Second year will be $78.47/hr if you're stuck in the back of the 72, $117.92 as a narrowbody FO (727 or 757,) and $143.88 if you are a widebody FO. As mentioned above, multiplying your pay rate by 1000 is a decent estimate of your yearly salary, so chances are you will equal your NJA salary in your second year.
08-24-2011, 06:21 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by DLax85
$28K first YEAR seems pretty low --- were you extended on training pay for some reason (@$2K per month) or dropped a lot of trips?
I believe first year 727 SO rate was about $52 per hour back then, and a little over $60 an hour now ---- that should equate to about $54K per year once on the line.
2nd year SO pay is around $78 an hour --- but, most guys hired now will either be on narrow body FO pay (~$117 an hour) or wide body FO pay (~$143 an hour) on their 2nd year --- depending on what domicile you bid.
You can safely estimate you'll get 900 hrs per year with min BLG + 4 recurrent training days per year....thus, 2nd year pay could range from $70K to $105K to $128K...plus, A fund and B fund benefits.
One shouldn't sweat going to ANC, HKG or CGN if you don't want to --- they only take volunteers.
I believe first year 727 SO rate was about $52 per hour back then, and a little over $60 an hour now ---- that should equate to about $54K per year once on the line.
2nd year SO pay is around $78 an hour --- but, most guys hired now will either be on narrow body FO pay (~$117 an hour) or wide body FO pay (~$143 an hour) on their 2nd year --- depending on what domicile you bid.
You can safely estimate you'll get 900 hrs per year with min BLG + 4 recurrent training days per year....thus, 2nd year pay could range from $70K to $105K to $128K...plus, A fund and B fund benefits.
One shouldn't sweat going to ANC, HKG or CGN if you don't want to --- they only take volunteers.
FDX Stay NJA Loss/Gain
1 45000 119254 -74254
2 129600 123427 -68081
3 129600 127747 -66228
4 132300 132219 -66147
5 135000 136846 -67993
6 137700 142320 -72613
7 140400 142320 -74533
8 143100 142320 -73753
etc.
Again, just a WAG with a base pay to base pay comparison, and best case as a widebody FO at FDX. So, it appears, on a strictly monthly take home level, that it would take the upgrade at FDX to recoup the first year pay hit. As for an entire career, forget about it, FDX wins by millions of dollars. But I had a multi-million-dollar major airline career back in 2001 and that, uh . . . .
There is no doubt in my mind that one can work far fewer days (or nights as the case may be) per year at FDX, especially if one lives in domicile.
08-24-2011, 06:24 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by kingairfun
. . . .When Santulli left, so did the culture at NJA..Now it's run like every other company, only worse because NJA has way too many customers that it still will lose over the next couple of years. And current management has absolutely no clue how to keep them and gain new owners..They are basically clueless.. NJA will be a "low cost" fractional soon...
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