NJA vs FDX
08-24-2011, 07:00 PM
#21
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
It's all moot until you get the offer. Regardless, your financial analysis is impressive. But money is only one factor (albeit a big factor). If you are not enjoying your work or you are actually annoyed doing it, then that can weigh you down. If you were hired by FDX and you could live in base (i.e., MEM), then your QOL could be great. Plus you could hang out at my favorite rib joint in MEM (Randezvous) - that would be awesome (but perhaps not so healthy).
I know a few guys at FDX on the 757 and MD11 and they love it - and they are making good money. Great variety and schedules, excellent equipment, top pay as you gain seniority. There are a lot of things to like about FDX. Get the inteview and offer and then make the decision.
I know a few guys at FDX on the 757 and MD11 and they love it - and they are making good money. Great variety and schedules, excellent equipment, top pay as you gain seniority. There are a lot of things to like about FDX. Get the inteview and offer and then make the decision.
08-25-2011, 05:32 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Upright
Posts: 601
KingAirFun is dead on. Until NJA gets some real leadership who will turn things around from a customer service standpoint, NJA is on shaky ground. That turn around will take time and I doubt many owners will stick around to watch it transpire. The company will continue to shrink until there's something better to offer the owners than 8 year old Citations that break a lot. We already know that's at least a year away, and there's plenty of contracts up for renewal between now and then.
08-25-2011, 01:10 PM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 98
I gave up $80k in 401K match and first year salary difference to come over in 2006. Then got stuck on the panel for 5 years.
NJA flying is fun. However, I was finding it hard to care that Muffy needed a limo waiting at the jet so she could meet Biff for their tee time.
FedEx total benefit package is superior to NJA. Especially medical leave.
FedEx is a major fortune 500 corporation that is well run and growing. NJA made all their real money selling airplanes. They looked like a Ponzi scheme during the expansion. FedEx future looks better.
Both companies may come looking for givebacks from the pilots.
I am commuting to a reserve line for narrow body pay. No regrets at all.
NJA flying is fun. However, I was finding it hard to care that Muffy needed a limo waiting at the jet so she could meet Biff for their tee time.
FedEx total benefit package is superior to NJA. Especially medical leave.
FedEx is a major fortune 500 corporation that is well run and growing. NJA made all their real money selling airplanes. They looked like a Ponzi scheme during the expansion. FedEx future looks better.
Both companies may come looking for givebacks from the pilots.
I am commuting to a reserve line for narrow body pay. No regrets at all.
08-25-2011, 01:24 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: low hanging fruit
Posts: 116
Charley,
If it helps you with your decision, I experienced the exact same situation you are confronted with now. I left NJA to come to FedEx. I began at NJA about the same time you did. I was a captain as well and pulled the plug just AFTER Netjets got the new contract. I crunched the numbers for a long time like you've done. I too was furloughed from "the dream job" after 9/11 and NJA was great, especially at that time in the airline industry. However, having experienced both jobs, I can give you an accurate comparison and assessment of the bennies/disadvantages of both:
Pay: You will reach pay parity at FDX by the time you finish year three as a narrow- body F/O on the 727 or 757 provided you remain on the same schedule you're currently at with NJA. There is a good chance you would begin at FDX as a 727 flight engineer and that would add an additional year. However, since FDX is hiring and phasing out the 727 you would most likely not be an FE for very long. If you were hired right into the right seat of a wide-body, you would reach pay parity beginning your second year. You wrote your salary is 119K/year at year 10 as a captain. Therefore, I'm assuming you are on the 7/7 schedule at NJA. I realize if you choose the 18-day schedule it's nearly 25K/year more which is substantial but a lot more work. You would not recoup your initial 75K deficit until you upgraded to narrow-body CA at FedEx which could take approximately 7 years provided hiring continues as well as retirements. That's just a rough estimate. The entire deficit would disappear after the first year as a narrow body captain at FedEx and then you would far exceed the pay scale at NJA and never look back. The extra pay of "extended days" (if they still call it that at NJA) is great, which is time and a half. FedEx has something called "draft trips" which also pays time and a half. If FedEx is short-handed and needs to fill a trip but has no one left on reserve to call, they will offer folks draft trips as an incentive. It's extra money and does not count towards your monthly guarantee. However, Netjets rewards its pilots with extended day pay if you work the major holidays. You get nothing extra at FedEx and expect to work all the major holidays while on reserve.
Benefits: NJA's 401K is great. FedEx's is poor, it's only $500 matching. However, FedEx still has a coveted pension plan which is huge. Only 4 airlines in the US still have a pension: FedEx, UPS, American and Alaska except Alaska's pension is no longer available to new hires. FedEx also has a B-plan which essentially gives you an extra 7% of what you make a year. FedEx wins hands down in this area. Of course, our pension could disappear like all the other airlines but it's highly unlikely. It's far less likely that FedEx's pension will suffer from massive underfunding like United's, for example. Medical/Dental at both Netjets and FedEx is very similar and very good.
Commuting: No one has a better commuting policy than NJA. At Netjets you can fly from home. NJA buys you an airline ticket and flies you to wherever you begin your trip. They also fly you home at the end of your trip. You don't have to worry how you're going to get to work. Netjets figures that out for you. On top of that, you're on the clock while you commute. It simply doesn't get any better than that. FedEx's commuting policy (on a FedEx jet) is hands down the best of all the 121 carriers but not as good as NJA. FedEx allows you to reserve a jumpseat on a FedEx jet 21 days in advance. You know whether or not you have a seat long before you begin your trip. There is no stress with waiting at the gate in some terminal "hoping" to get a seat. That's a lot of stress and FedEx pretty much eliminates it. If the FedEx jet you're jumpseating on breaks or diverts and you miss your trip, you're legally covered and won't be penalized. If you jumpseat off-line you will be penalized. FedEx lines contain a lot of double-deadhead trips. If your trip includes a dead-head and you don't want to begin your trip from your base, FedEx allows you to use the value of your dead-head ticket to purchase a replacement ticket that begins somewhere else such as your home city. Therefore, you can dead-head directly from home to wherever the jet is located instead of jumpseating from home to your base then dead-heading to where the jet is. This is called "deviating" and it is a lot like the beginning of a Netjets trip. The same thing goes with dead-heading at the end of a trip. This cuts down a day or two of commuting and thus, reduces the amount of days you're gone from home.
Type of flying: Flying the rich and shameless at NJA eventually gives you the feeling of being relegated to a professional chauffeur. After dealing with demanding passengers for 10 years it can get a little old. However, boxes don't complain or whine and it's so nice not having to deal with passengers. At FedEx it's just you and one or two other guys in the cockpit. Sometimes you have a few jumpseaters but they are usually in the back sleeping. FedEx flying, which is mostly backside-of-the-clock flying, can be very difficult. It can be brutal on the body and if you are on reserve, you will experience a lot of it. International flying can be tough as well due to all the time zone changes. NJA flights are mostly domestic and flown during the day and almost never late at night or at 3:00 AM. Once you get some seniority at FedEx you can experience day flying and double dead-heads which will feel like a Netjets trip without the passengers and the hassles associated with them. At Netjets, customer service is everything so you have to cater to the passengers both figuratively and literally. At FedEx, you don't have to worry about any of that. At Netjets you have to ensure the pax have the proper catering, transportation waiting for them, (make them yourself if necessary), and arrange your own transportation to the hotel and back. FedEx takes care of all of that for you. When you finish a trip at Netjets, you have to do paperwork, button-up the jet, arrange your catering for the next day and transportation. At FedEx, you simply walk off the jet to an awaiting limo and you're done. Regarding hotels; the quality of hotels NJA and FedEx put their crews in are very similar. The hotels are usually the higher-end brand names unless you're out in the middle of nowhere like Grand Forks, ND. Then, you stay at a motel. At Netjets, you keep all the hotel and airlines points which is great. Since almost all trips at Netjets are double dead-heads, the points rack up substantially. At FedEx, you can rarely claim hotel points but can usually claim airline points.
Schedule: The schedules at NJA are broken down into only 3 types: 7 on/7 off, 15-day or 18-day. That's it. FedEx has a wide variety of trips and three or four kinds of reserve schedules. At Netjets there is really no manipulating your schedule. The only way is to call in sick. You have to fly the schedule they give you. It's that simple. You have no say in where you go or when you work unless you're on the 7/7 schedule. It's far different at FedEx. At purple, you can drop trips, trade trips and until recently, you could even drop and trade reserve days but that has been nearly impossible to do lately. For the most part, the latitude and ability to manipulate one's schedule at FedEx is a big plus for QOL and commuting. That doesn't exists at NJA.
Growth. My personal opinion is that FedEx is less likely to suffer the effects of a down turn in the economy like the pax carriers and even NJA. If the economy collapses again, the rich will simply give up their private jets and go back to flying first class on the pax carriers. However, even with a deteriorating economy, people will still pay to ship packages. They may not pay to get it there overnight, which is how FedEx makes lots of its money, but people still continue to ship packages. The business model FedEx has is safer when the economy tanks than the other carriers, including Netjets. FedEx is currently hiring and expects to continue to do so for the next several years now that the over-60 folks are nearing 65 which requires them to retire as a pilot. Since Netjets pilots fall under Part 91/135, there is no mandatory retirement age so movement at NJA looks stagnant for the foreseeable future. NJA has furloughed 450 guys and I hear rumors that more cuts could be on the way. It is unlikely FedEx will furlough anytime soon. A lot of lower-cost fractionals are popping up trying to take down Netjets which is the premier player at the moment. FedEx currently has only one major competitor which is UPS.
I hope this reply will give you additional information and help you make an informed decision whether or not to stay at NJA. Considering you're a captain and have very good seniority at NJA, if you choose to stay I think you will be just fine. The two companies are very different as well as the type of flying they do and the operations they conduct. However, having worked at both companies I can say that I am very glad I came to FedEx. I believe that it provides a better career, potential earnings and overall QOL compared with a 20-year career at NJA. PM me if you have any specific questions. I'd be happy to answer them.
If it helps you with your decision, I experienced the exact same situation you are confronted with now. I left NJA to come to FedEx. I began at NJA about the same time you did. I was a captain as well and pulled the plug just AFTER Netjets got the new contract. I crunched the numbers for a long time like you've done. I too was furloughed from "the dream job" after 9/11 and NJA was great, especially at that time in the airline industry. However, having experienced both jobs, I can give you an accurate comparison and assessment of the bennies/disadvantages of both:
Pay: You will reach pay parity at FDX by the time you finish year three as a narrow- body F/O on the 727 or 757 provided you remain on the same schedule you're currently at with NJA. There is a good chance you would begin at FDX as a 727 flight engineer and that would add an additional year. However, since FDX is hiring and phasing out the 727 you would most likely not be an FE for very long. If you were hired right into the right seat of a wide-body, you would reach pay parity beginning your second year. You wrote your salary is 119K/year at year 10 as a captain. Therefore, I'm assuming you are on the 7/7 schedule at NJA. I realize if you choose the 18-day schedule it's nearly 25K/year more which is substantial but a lot more work. You would not recoup your initial 75K deficit until you upgraded to narrow-body CA at FedEx which could take approximately 7 years provided hiring continues as well as retirements. That's just a rough estimate. The entire deficit would disappear after the first year as a narrow body captain at FedEx and then you would far exceed the pay scale at NJA and never look back. The extra pay of "extended days" (if they still call it that at NJA) is great, which is time and a half. FedEx has something called "draft trips" which also pays time and a half. If FedEx is short-handed and needs to fill a trip but has no one left on reserve to call, they will offer folks draft trips as an incentive. It's extra money and does not count towards your monthly guarantee. However, Netjets rewards its pilots with extended day pay if you work the major holidays. You get nothing extra at FedEx and expect to work all the major holidays while on reserve.
Benefits: NJA's 401K is great. FedEx's is poor, it's only $500 matching. However, FedEx still has a coveted pension plan which is huge. Only 4 airlines in the US still have a pension: FedEx, UPS, American and Alaska except Alaska's pension is no longer available to new hires. FedEx also has a B-plan which essentially gives you an extra 7% of what you make a year. FedEx wins hands down in this area. Of course, our pension could disappear like all the other airlines but it's highly unlikely. It's far less likely that FedEx's pension will suffer from massive underfunding like United's, for example. Medical/Dental at both Netjets and FedEx is very similar and very good.
Commuting: No one has a better commuting policy than NJA. At Netjets you can fly from home. NJA buys you an airline ticket and flies you to wherever you begin your trip. They also fly you home at the end of your trip. You don't have to worry how you're going to get to work. Netjets figures that out for you. On top of that, you're on the clock while you commute. It simply doesn't get any better than that. FedEx's commuting policy (on a FedEx jet) is hands down the best of all the 121 carriers but not as good as NJA. FedEx allows you to reserve a jumpseat on a FedEx jet 21 days in advance. You know whether or not you have a seat long before you begin your trip. There is no stress with waiting at the gate in some terminal "hoping" to get a seat. That's a lot of stress and FedEx pretty much eliminates it. If the FedEx jet you're jumpseating on breaks or diverts and you miss your trip, you're legally covered and won't be penalized. If you jumpseat off-line you will be penalized. FedEx lines contain a lot of double-deadhead trips. If your trip includes a dead-head and you don't want to begin your trip from your base, FedEx allows you to use the value of your dead-head ticket to purchase a replacement ticket that begins somewhere else such as your home city. Therefore, you can dead-head directly from home to wherever the jet is located instead of jumpseating from home to your base then dead-heading to where the jet is. This is called "deviating" and it is a lot like the beginning of a Netjets trip. The same thing goes with dead-heading at the end of a trip. This cuts down a day or two of commuting and thus, reduces the amount of days you're gone from home.
Type of flying: Flying the rich and shameless at NJA eventually gives you the feeling of being relegated to a professional chauffeur. After dealing with demanding passengers for 10 years it can get a little old. However, boxes don't complain or whine and it's so nice not having to deal with passengers. At FedEx it's just you and one or two other guys in the cockpit. Sometimes you have a few jumpseaters but they are usually in the back sleeping. FedEx flying, which is mostly backside-of-the-clock flying, can be very difficult. It can be brutal on the body and if you are on reserve, you will experience a lot of it. International flying can be tough as well due to all the time zone changes. NJA flights are mostly domestic and flown during the day and almost never late at night or at 3:00 AM. Once you get some seniority at FedEx you can experience day flying and double dead-heads which will feel like a Netjets trip without the passengers and the hassles associated with them. At Netjets, customer service is everything so you have to cater to the passengers both figuratively and literally. At FedEx, you don't have to worry about any of that. At Netjets you have to ensure the pax have the proper catering, transportation waiting for them, (make them yourself if necessary), and arrange your own transportation to the hotel and back. FedEx takes care of all of that for you. When you finish a trip at Netjets, you have to do paperwork, button-up the jet, arrange your catering for the next day and transportation. At FedEx, you simply walk off the jet to an awaiting limo and you're done. Regarding hotels; the quality of hotels NJA and FedEx put their crews in are very similar. The hotels are usually the higher-end brand names unless you're out in the middle of nowhere like Grand Forks, ND. Then, you stay at a motel. At Netjets, you keep all the hotel and airlines points which is great. Since almost all trips at Netjets are double dead-heads, the points rack up substantially. At FedEx, you can rarely claim hotel points but can usually claim airline points.
Schedule: The schedules at NJA are broken down into only 3 types: 7 on/7 off, 15-day or 18-day. That's it. FedEx has a wide variety of trips and three or four kinds of reserve schedules. At Netjets there is really no manipulating your schedule. The only way is to call in sick. You have to fly the schedule they give you. It's that simple. You have no say in where you go or when you work unless you're on the 7/7 schedule. It's far different at FedEx. At purple, you can drop trips, trade trips and until recently, you could even drop and trade reserve days but that has been nearly impossible to do lately. For the most part, the latitude and ability to manipulate one's schedule at FedEx is a big plus for QOL and commuting. That doesn't exists at NJA.
Growth. My personal opinion is that FedEx is less likely to suffer the effects of a down turn in the economy like the pax carriers and even NJA. If the economy collapses again, the rich will simply give up their private jets and go back to flying first class on the pax carriers. However, even with a deteriorating economy, people will still pay to ship packages. They may not pay to get it there overnight, which is how FedEx makes lots of its money, but people still continue to ship packages. The business model FedEx has is safer when the economy tanks than the other carriers, including Netjets. FedEx is currently hiring and expects to continue to do so for the next several years now that the over-60 folks are nearing 65 which requires them to retire as a pilot. Since Netjets pilots fall under Part 91/135, there is no mandatory retirement age so movement at NJA looks stagnant for the foreseeable future. NJA has furloughed 450 guys and I hear rumors that more cuts could be on the way. It is unlikely FedEx will furlough anytime soon. A lot of lower-cost fractionals are popping up trying to take down Netjets which is the premier player at the moment. FedEx currently has only one major competitor which is UPS.
I hope this reply will give you additional information and help you make an informed decision whether or not to stay at NJA. Considering you're a captain and have very good seniority at NJA, if you choose to stay I think you will be just fine. The two companies are very different as well as the type of flying they do and the operations they conduct. However, having worked at both companies I can say that I am very glad I came to FedEx. I believe that it provides a better career, potential earnings and overall QOL compared with a 20-year career at NJA. PM me if you have any specific questions. I'd be happy to answer them.
08-25-2011, 03:29 PM
#26
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: bizjets,left
Posts: 4
Thanks for all the info. I am in a similar situation, but not as nice as NJA. I am tired of the people in the back of the airplane. I guess I will remain patient and wait for "the call" form FedEx. Thanks again!
08-25-2011, 11:49 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by Auger In
Charley,
. . . .I hope this reply will give you additional information and help you make an informed decision whether or not to stay at NJA. Considering you're a captain and have very good seniority at NJA, if you choose to stay I think you will be just fine. The two companies are very different as well as the type of flying they do and the operations they conduct. However, having worked at both companies I can say that I am very glad I came to FedEx. I believe that it provides a better career, potential earnings and overall QOL compared with a 20-year career at NJA. PM me if you have any specific questions. I'd be happy to answer them.
. . . .I hope this reply will give you additional information and help you make an informed decision whether or not to stay at NJA. Considering you're a captain and have very good seniority at NJA, if you choose to stay I think you will be just fine. The two companies are very different as well as the type of flying they do and the operations they conduct. However, having worked at both companies I can say that I am very glad I came to FedEx. I believe that it provides a better career, potential earnings and overall QOL compared with a 20-year career at NJA. PM me if you have any specific questions. I'd be happy to answer them.
08-26-2011, 06:41 PM
#28
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,222
If you haven't yet, make sure to read todays 411..May give you even yet another push to try for Fedex.
If I was a SIC or junior PIC, at NJA, I'd be looking real hard at JetBlue next week also...
NJA's 3 year run, at the top, was fun while it lasted
If I was a SIC or junior PIC, at NJA, I'd be looking real hard at JetBlue next week also...
NJA's 3 year run, at the top, was fun while it lasted
08-26-2011, 07:53 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by kingairfun
If you haven't yet, make sure to read todays 411..May give you even yet another push to try for Fedex.
If I was a SIC or junior PIC, at NJA, I'd be looking real hard at JetBlue next week also...
NJA's 3 year run, at the top, was fun while it lasted
If I was a SIC or junior PIC, at NJA, I'd be looking real hard at JetBlue next week also...
NJA's 3 year run, at the top, was fun while it lasted
08-26-2011, 08:45 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
Originally Posted by kingairfun
If you haven't yet, make sure to read todays 411..May give you even yet another push to try for Fedex.
If I was a SIC or junior PIC, at NJA, I'd be looking real hard at JetBlue next week also...
NJA's 3 year run, at the top, was fun while it lasted
If I was a SIC or junior PIC, at NJA, I'd be looking real hard at JetBlue next week also...
NJA's 3 year run, at the top, was fun while it lasted
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