Worst Cargo Airlines to fly for (Pay,QOL,ETC)
05-14-2013, 01:57 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
Originally Posted by xjtguy
ESOP.
And bear in mind, it COULDN'T be cashed out till retirement. Those that banged out at the peak did OK. Those rode out the post 9/11 and BK era found it only worth a fraction of what it was before that.
And bear in mind, it COULDN'T be cashed out till retirement. Those that banged out at the peak did OK. Those rode out the post 9/11 and BK era found it only worth a fraction of what it was before that.
Esop's folly. One of the great screw jobs in labor history.
05-14-2013, 02:14 PM
#92
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Originally Posted by Vito
UPS guys,
Don't let this place eat at your soul, fly safe collect a pay check and go home, if you need hugs get it from the wife and kids..its a job, and thats it.
Don't let this place eat at your soul, fly safe collect a pay check and go home, if you need hugs get it from the wife and kids..its a job, and thats it.
05-14-2013, 03:40 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,809
"Then come the middle class of ATI/Cappy, the remnants of ABEX, Southern Air, Kalitta, etc.
remnants of ABEX.....ATI/Cappy fly maybe 6-8 airframes and are losing huge $$$$ ABX is flying 28 to 30 airframes and make ALL the money for ATSG. check out the numbers and QOL few compare...FDX/UPS are the only ones making more. Although UPS guys complain about QOL alot...
remnants of ABEX.....ATI/Cappy fly maybe 6-8 airframes and are losing huge $$$$ ABX is flying 28 to 30 airframes and make ALL the money for ATSG. check out the numbers and QOL few compare...FDX/UPS are the only ones making more. Although UPS guys complain about QOL alot...
05-14-2013, 09:35 PM
#95
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
Perspectives.. or things that make you go Hmm
Originally Posted by freightretriever
You obviously don't work for UPS. The ONLY great thing about UPS is the paycheck (for now, we will see how long that lasts). Everything else completely sucks for anyone in the bottom 300 and anyone to be hired (if they ever hire again, still have 48 guys furloughed). QOL is by far the worse I've ever had. UPS=Misery if you are junior. Study the demographics of the group very carefully. You will be junior your entire career if we ever hire again. I'm sure some senior guy will chime in and say what a great place UPS is but be warned their experience will not be your experience. Again, paycheck - great for now. Everything else, not so much. And after a while the money isn't worth it either. Do yourself a favor and go fly for a real airline.
Originally Posted by Vito
UPS guys,
A little perspective may help. I was hired in 95 @ $23,000/yr second year $44,000, 3rd year $56,000. Captains were paid $144/hr. I turned down a job at United in 95 because some wise old men in my Resrerve squadron told me, "Stick with Cargo, its less turbulent (career wise)". At the time, (mid 1994) Delta and American had alot of guys on furlough, many of whom flew with me in my squadron. So I opted to go to UPS instead of United. 3 years later, 1998, we were in the midst of an ugly contract negociation, we went on strike for two weeks walking picket lines with the teamsters and I basically thought I had made the worst decision of my life coming to UPS. My Buds at United that were hired in early 1995 (when I would have been) were based in New York (where I live/no commuting to SDF) were flying wide-bodies and making approx $86/hr while I was bringing in $56/hr. They also recieved over $80,000 each because of the ASOP (?) United's employee stock ownership plan. I had "Ooogatz!! (thats Italian slang for NOTHING!!!) fast forward 3 years later, I'm on the cusp of upgrading to Captain and United, AMR, Delta etc are on the cusp of collapse due to 9-11. Last week my United buddy asked me again when we were hiring?, He was hired at UAL in 1995! ditto for some of the American pilots too.
All I can say is the group of UPS pilots who were hired in 06/07 have suffered immensely, their have been jerked around and forced to live in the Frozen North. If I were in their shoes I'd be massively ****ed-off too, but have a little faith and eventually things will get better around here. I was bummed out for a few years, and to be honest as a junior Captain my scheds suck as much as a junior F/O (not looking for sympathy, I know many would trade places with me in a heartbeat) fight hard during these negociations and don't grab at the money or bonuses at the expense of livable schedules. we can have both and the IPA is the union that will deliver it...stay strong and realize it will get better. Don't let this place eat at your soul, fly safe collect a pay check and go home, if you need hugs get it from the wife and kids..its a job, and thats it.
A little perspective may help. I was hired in 95 @ $23,000/yr second year $44,000, 3rd year $56,000. Captains were paid $144/hr. I turned down a job at United in 95 because some wise old men in my Resrerve squadron told me, "Stick with Cargo, its less turbulent (career wise)". At the time, (mid 1994) Delta and American had alot of guys on furlough, many of whom flew with me in my squadron. So I opted to go to UPS instead of United. 3 years later, 1998, we were in the midst of an ugly contract negociation, we went on strike for two weeks walking picket lines with the teamsters and I basically thought I had made the worst decision of my life coming to UPS. My Buds at United that were hired in early 1995 (when I would have been) were based in New York (where I live/no commuting to SDF) were flying wide-bodies and making approx $86/hr while I was bringing in $56/hr. They also recieved over $80,000 each because of the ASOP (?) United's employee stock ownership plan. I had "Ooogatz!! (thats Italian slang for NOTHING!!!) fast forward 3 years later, I'm on the cusp of upgrading to Captain and United, AMR, Delta etc are on the cusp of collapse due to 9-11. Last week my United buddy asked me again when we were hiring?, He was hired at UAL in 1995! ditto for some of the American pilots too.
All I can say is the group of UPS pilots who were hired in 06/07 have suffered immensely, their have been jerked around and forced to live in the Frozen North. If I were in their shoes I'd be massively ****ed-off too, but have a little faith and eventually things will get better around here. I was bummed out for a few years, and to be honest as a junior Captain my scheds suck as much as a junior F/O (not looking for sympathy, I know many would trade places with me in a heartbeat) fight hard during these negociations and don't grab at the money or bonuses at the expense of livable schedules. we can have both and the IPA is the union that will deliver it...stay strong and realize it will get better. Don't let this place eat at your soul, fly safe collect a pay check and go home, if you need hugs get it from the wife and kids..its a job, and thats it.
Originally Posted by chi05
Kind of reminds me of this.
First World Problems Anthem - YouTube
First World Problems Anthem - YouTube
Originally Posted by 1111
I heard a SCAB say that once.......replace "UPS" with your favorite airline.....
I'll bite..... Here is what I know about UPS..,
I lived in, then ran, a UPS crashpad from 1994 to 2000 in SDF. During that time, I flew for a company that was the largest subcontractor for UPS out of SDF flying Aerostars, Metros, Falcons, etc. I have been to most every UPS hub and outstation from Bermuda, to Winnipeg, to CYVR to GDL and all points in between back in the days they had the big "Lear Launches" nearly every night. I, along with 98 other fellow pilots refused to fly struck goods during UPS Teamsters strike at great risk to our careers by refusing to fly with no contract. Only one of 100 crossed, whose nickname was "Scabby" if you put a "c" in his name spelling... I walked the picket line that night in August 1997 and am so proud that we did right thing. No, I never worked there but can honestly say that I know some stuff about life at UPS. Needless to say, I have many friends there from '88 retirees to furloughees.
What you are missing from this thread is PERSPECTIVE and being happy for what little you have! What you have is one of the greatest, tightest, and most unified pilot groups out there. Maybe things have changed for the worse lately, but you still have that pilot group. What you also have is is the toughest and most effective pilot union out there... Disagree? Name a better one.. I can say that having been IBT, ALPA, In-house, and unrepresented. This thread was about $hithole cargo operators that don't have lavs in their B727's and pilots are relieving themselves in relief bags. Ask them about a truly poor QOL.
I can shed a tear for the furloughed UPS pilots.... Having been furloughed 4 times in my career, I understand the pain and suffering that it involves. I also realize that this career is a crapshoot and regardless of your education, experience, or qualifications that this career is all about luck (I can say that having went to the Unemployment office together with a fellow furloughee who was an Air Force Academy graduate). Even astronauts can get furloughed from Pan AM, TWA, Eastern, etc.
Dude, you all need some perspective here regarding the QOL at Fedex, UPS vs. literally everyone else. Do things suck there now more than ever? Sure they do... Could they get worse? Absolutely.. But right now, most UPS pilots have a great QOL compared to every other 121 freight carrier (except maybe Fedex) and certainly better than every 135 freight carrier. Don't believe me, go take a survey at the hub or when you are jumpseating home on Saturday. Yes, it sucks what UPS did to your furloughees by having them move to ANC and then screwing them. But guess what, they have a UPS seniority number. I, and I'll bet most other non-UPS or Fedex pilot on this cargo forum, would rather be a furloughed UPS pilot than the most senior Captain at any other cargo carrier. Is it because UPS is so nice to its employees and treats them so great? Heck no! It's because the UPS pilot group is so great and the IPA kicks comparative a$$.
If the QOL at UPS is the worst you have ever had, boy am I and most other paeons here envious of you! That means that you must never have been a CFI, Regional pilot, banner tower, 135 freight pilot, 121 supplemental cargo pilot, minimum wage job, etc. "Paycheck- great for now?!?!" How many other cargo pilots can EVER say that? You remind me of this delightfully obtuse guy in my SDF crashpad whose nickname was "Unsat" because he was always saying how unsat things were at UPS. Unsat prided himself on the fact that the only civilian job that he ever held was at UPS. That means no lemonade stands, no grass cutting, no washing planes at an FBO, nothing. Unsat went from high school to college, then OCS, then USAF, and finally UPS. Unsat was hilarious because he was so out of touch in describing how awful his life was at UPS to guys who were fighting for their lives trying to survive Part 135 cargo flying without getting killed or violated. One time, Unsat actually jumpseated with us on our Falcon going to SDF. This was out of LAX and for ONCE in my part 135 cargo career I GOT A CREW MEAL!!!!!! This ONCE IN A 135 CARGO PILOT LIFETIME crew meal was all they could find for us and must have cost them a fortune cause it had like 4 courses, came with orchids, and was in a nice box. But since we said we were not flying unless we ate, they got it for us.
Unsat couldn't believe our crew meal... Being innocently and cluelessly demeaning of us, he said "Hey, do you guys eat like this all the time?" The other pilot and I looked at each other and back at him and said "don't you?" We had fun stirring him up... "Yeah, if I were you, I'd call Bob Miller at home tonight and raise holy hell that we get better crew meals than you"
. And he's like, "Hey, no offense, but we should be getting at Least what you subcontractors get". We had him ready to file a grievance as soon as he got to SDF. One of one of my other UPS roomies made me finally tell him that we didn't get that catering all the time or ever and he was actually relieved 
.We really got Unsat all stirred up at the hub one night (back in the day, we sat in the cafeteria right next to the UPS pilots) because we told him that his freight dog sticker on his flight bag was posing. He didn't understand that he truly was NOT a real freight dog. If you have a union, association, or a contract, you are not a freight dog. If you have an A, B, or any fund, you are not a freight dog. If you are in CASS or KCM, you are not a freight dog ("Sorry, you aren't on our list..."). If your plane came from the factory as a freighter, you are not a freight dog. Real freight dogs come from KYIP and fly non-known ice P210 or Lances over Lake Michigan at night, hands and shirt dirty from loading the greasy automotive parts by hand. Freight dogs also load and unload thousands of pounds into a Metro, Caravan, etc. after having to wait out on the SDF ramp in the freezing cold with no APU for heat(I hear that UPS wants to keep the subcontractors out at the planes these days, but I wouldn't know that for sure since I'm not a real freight dog anymore, either). Ask them about their Pay and QOL in comparison to yours, even as an '07 hire.
In the end, Unsat ended up leaving UPS for the "Majors" like so many other UPS pilots who bailed in the late 90's 'til Sept. 11. Unsat ended up getting furloughed from a Major and I shed a tear for him. Unsat wasn't a bad guy (Just delightfully and innocently obtuse) and didn't deserve that fate. Whether the humbling and humiliating experience of being furloughed brought him back down to Earth, I don't know. But I am sure that he and most others who left wish that they had stayed there.
So back to where this thread started, most of the middle class cargo jobs are gone, and much like our new economy it's the Super rich and the very poor in Cargo, with a handful of good middle class cargo carriers left. Yes, that's hyperbole because UPS and Fedex are far from perfect and Amerijet must have something good going for it. Chances are your QOL, pay, and everything else of at a YIP or MIA based freight carrier will be much less than at an SDF or MEM based cargo carrier. Most real freight dogs can tell you that with great ease.
Finally, to the UPS pilot who used the scab word to compare to someone with whom he disagreed, to use that word for someone who isn't a scab only dilutes its true meaning. I can say that having walked a picket line... At UPS. So no, I don't work for UPS and I'm sure that with my picture in UPS Loss Prevention files from that night during the strike, no I'll never work at UPS, either. But the great majority of my many, many friends that work there (many from "the Majors") agree that it is the best job that they ever had despite "being up late, flying freight, for people you hate".
Good luck to all the real freight dogs out there and to the airline pilots who just happen to fly freight. Flame away!
Last edited by B727DRVR; 05-14-2013 at 09:48 PM.
05-15-2013, 01:26 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
B727DRVR,
Great Post! My son is currently attending College and learning to fly, your post is going to be the first thing he reads today when he wakes up!
Pilot7576, Yes I am, go to my profile, not too hard to figure out
Great Post! My son is currently attending College and learning to fly, your post is going to be the first thing he reads today when he wakes up!
Pilot7576, Yes I am, go to my profile, not too hard to figure out
05-15-2013, 01:45 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by Vito
B727DRVR,
Great Post! My son is currently attending College and learning to fly, your post is going to be the first thing he reads today when he wakes up!
Pilot7576, Yes I am, go to my profile, not too hard to figure out
Great Post! My son is currently attending College and learning to fly, your post is going to be the first thing he reads today when he wakes up!
Pilot7576, Yes I am, go to my profile, not too hard to figure out
I'm a born New Yorker, too... My dad kept his old LGA crashpad (where I spent my first 5 years of life, amid the many old uniforms and manuals left behind) for me under rent control waiting for my aviation career to take off... Well, it never did in LGA anyway.
Tell your son I recommend hedge fund manager, instead.
I probably ran at you in the hub back in the day. Thanks again,
B727DRVR
05-15-2013, 01:56 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by nitefr8dog
"Then come the middle class of ATI/Cappy, the remnants of ABEX, Southern Air, Kalitta, etc.
remnants of ABEX.....ATI/Cappy fly maybe 6-8 airframes and are losing huge $$$$ ABX is flying 28 to 30 airframes and make ALL the money for ATSG. check out the numbers and QOL few compare...FDX/UPS are the only ones making more. Although UPS guys complain about QOL alot...
remnants of ABEX.....ATI/Cappy fly maybe 6-8 airframes and are losing huge $$$$ ABX is flying 28 to 30 airframes and make ALL the money for ATSG. check out the numbers and QOL few compare...FDX/UPS are the only ones making more. Although UPS guys complain about QOL alot...
I was just trying to say that most of the great non-UPS/Fedex Cargo airlines are either greatly reduced in size or gone.
Great respect and best of luck to all you 1224 guys..
05-15-2013, 05:18 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: B-747-400 FO
Posts: 354
Originally Posted by B727DRVR
OK freightretriever,
I'll bite..... Here is what I know about UPS..,
I lived in, then ran, a UPS crashpad from 1994 to 2000 in SDF. During that time, I flew for a company that was the largest subcontractor for UPS out of SDF flying Aerostars, Metros, Falcons, etc. I have been to most every UPS hub and outstation from Bermuda, to Winnipeg, to CYVR to GDL and all points in between back in the days they had the big "Lear Launches" nearly every night. I, along with 98 other fellow pilots refused to fly struck goods during UPS Teamsters strike at great risk to our careers by refusing to fly with no contract. Only one of 100 crossed, whose nickname was "Scabby" if you put a "c" in his name spelling... I walked the picket line that night in August 1997 and am so proud that we did right thing. No, I never worked there but can honestly say that I know some stuff about life at UPS. Needless to say, I have many friends there from '88 retirees to furloughees.
What you are missing from this thread is PERSPECTIVE and being happy for what little you have! What you have is one of the greatest, tightest, and most unified pilot groups out there. Maybe things have changed for the worse lately, but you still have that pilot group. What you also have is is the toughest and most effective pilot union out there... Disagree? Name a better one.. I can say that having been IBT, ALPA, In-house, and unrepresented. This thread was about $hithole cargo operators that don't have lavs in their B727's and pilots are relieving themselves in relief bags. Ask them about a truly poor QOL.
I can shed a tear for the furloughed UPS pilots.... Having been furloughed 4 times in my career, I understand the pain and suffering that it involves. I also realize that this career is a crapshoot and regardless of your education, experience, or qualifications that this career is all about luck (I can say that having went to the Unemployment office together with a fellow furloughee who was an Air Force Academy graduate). Even astronauts can get furloughed from Pan AM, TWA, Eastern, etc.
Dude, you all need some perspective here regarding the QOL at Fedex, UPS vs. literally everyone else. Do things suck there now more than ever? Sure they do... Could they get worse? Absolutely.. But right now, most UPS pilots have a great QOL compared to every other 121 freight carrier (except maybe Fedex) and certainly better than every 135 freight carrier. Don't believe me, go take a survey at the hub or when you are jumpseating home on Saturday. Yes, it sucks what UPS did to your furloughees by having them move to ANC and then screwing them. But guess what, they have a UPS seniority number. I, and I'll bet most other non-UPS or Fedex pilot on this cargo forum, would rather be a furloughed UPS pilot than the most senior Captain at any other cargo carrier. Is it because UPS is so nice to its employees and treats them so great? Heck no! It's because the UPS pilot group is so great and the IPA kicks comparative a$$.
If the QOL at UPS is the worst you have ever had, boy am I and most other paeons here envious of you! That means that you must never have been a CFI, Regional pilot, banner tower, 135 freight pilot, 121 supplemental cargo pilot, minimum wage job, etc. "Paycheck- great for now?!?!" How many other cargo pilots can EVER say that? You remind me of this delightfully obtuse guy in my SDF crashpad whose nickname was "Unsat" because he was always saying how unsat things were at UPS. Unsat prided himself on the fact that the only civilian job that he ever held was at UPS. That means no lemonade stands, no grass cutting, no washing planes at an FBO, nothing. Unsat went from high school to college, then OCS, then USAF, and finally UPS. Unsat was hilarious because he was so out of touch in describing how awful his life was at UPS to guys who were fighting for their lives trying to survive Part 135 cargo flying without getting killed or violated. One time, Unsat actually jumpseated with us on our Falcon going to SDF. This was out of LAX and for ONCE in my part 135 cargo career I GOT A CREW MEAL!!!!!! This ONCE IN A 135 CARGO PILOT LIFETIME crew meal was all they could find for us and must have cost them a fortune cause it had like 4 courses, came with orchids, and was in a nice box. But since we said we were not flying unless we ate, they got it for us.
Unsat couldn't believe our crew meal... Being innocently and cluelessly demeaning of us, he said "Hey, do you guys eat like this all the time?" The other pilot and I looked at each other and back at him and said "don't you?" We had fun stirring him up... "Yeah, if I were you, I'd call Bob Miller at home tonight and raise holy hell that we get better crew meals than you". And he's like, "Hey, no offense, but we should be getting at Least what you subcontractors get". We had him ready to file a grievance as soon as he got to SDF. One of one of my other UPS roomies made me finally tell him that we didn't get that catering all the time or ever and he was actually relieved .
We really got Unsat all stirred up at the hub one night (back in the day, we sat in the cafeteria right next to the UPS pilots) because we told him that his freight dog sticker on his flight bag was posing. He didn't understand that he truly was NOT a real freight dog. If you have a union, association, or a contract, you are not a freight dog. If you have an A, B, or any fund, you are not a freight dog. If you are in CASS or KCM, you are not a freight dog ("Sorry, you aren't on our list..."). If your plane came from the factory as a freighter, you are not a freight dog. Real freight dogs come from KYIP and fly non-known ice P210 or Lances over Lake Michigan at night, hands and shirt dirty from loading the greasy automotive parts by hand. Freight dogs also load and unload thousands of pounds into a Metro, Caravan, etc. after having to wait out on the SDF ramp in the freezing cold with no APU for heat(I hear that UPS wants to keep the subcontractors out at the planes these days, but I wouldn't know that for sure since I'm not a real freight dog anymore, either). Ask them about their Pay and QOL in comparison to yours, even as an '07 hire.
In the end, Unsat ended up leaving UPS for the "Majors" like so many other UPS pilots who bailed in the late 90's 'til Sept. 11. Unsat ended up getting furloughed from a Major and I shed a tear for him. Unsat wasn't a bad guy (Just delightfully and innocently obtuse) and didn't deserve that fate. Whether the humbling and humiliating experience of being furloughed brought him back down to Earth, I don't know. But I am sure that he and most others who left wish that they had stayed there.
So back to where this thread started, most of the middle class cargo jobs are gone, and much like our new economy it's the Super rich and the very poor in Cargo, with a handful of good middle class cargo carriers left. Yes, that's hyperbole because UPS and Fedex are far from perfect and Amerijet must have something good going for it. Chances are your QOL, pay, and everything else of at a YIP or MIA based freight carrier will be much less than at an SDF or MEM based cargo carrier. Most real freight dogs can tell you that with great ease.
Finally, to the UPS pilot who used the scab word to compare to someone with whom he disagreed, to use that word for someone who isn't a scab only dilutes its true meaning. I can say that having walked a picket line... At UPS. So no, I don't work for UPS and I'm sure that with my picture in UPS Loss Prevention files from that night during the strike, no I'll never work at UPS, either. But the great majority of my many, many friends that work there (many from "the Majors") agree that it is the best job that they ever had despite "being up late, flying freight, for people you hate".
Good luck to all the real freight dogs out there and to the airline pilots who just happen to fly freight. Flame away!
I'll bite..... Here is what I know about UPS..,
I lived in, then ran, a UPS crashpad from 1994 to 2000 in SDF. During that time, I flew for a company that was the largest subcontractor for UPS out of SDF flying Aerostars, Metros, Falcons, etc. I have been to most every UPS hub and outstation from Bermuda, to Winnipeg, to CYVR to GDL and all points in between back in the days they had the big "Lear Launches" nearly every night. I, along with 98 other fellow pilots refused to fly struck goods during UPS Teamsters strike at great risk to our careers by refusing to fly with no contract. Only one of 100 crossed, whose nickname was "Scabby" if you put a "c" in his name spelling... I walked the picket line that night in August 1997 and am so proud that we did right thing. No, I never worked there but can honestly say that I know some stuff about life at UPS. Needless to say, I have many friends there from '88 retirees to furloughees.
What you are missing from this thread is PERSPECTIVE and being happy for what little you have! What you have is one of the greatest, tightest, and most unified pilot groups out there. Maybe things have changed for the worse lately, but you still have that pilot group. What you also have is is the toughest and most effective pilot union out there... Disagree? Name a better one.. I can say that having been IBT, ALPA, In-house, and unrepresented. This thread was about $hithole cargo operators that don't have lavs in their B727's and pilots are relieving themselves in relief bags. Ask them about a truly poor QOL.
I can shed a tear for the furloughed UPS pilots.... Having been furloughed 4 times in my career, I understand the pain and suffering that it involves. I also realize that this career is a crapshoot and regardless of your education, experience, or qualifications that this career is all about luck (I can say that having went to the Unemployment office together with a fellow furloughee who was an Air Force Academy graduate). Even astronauts can get furloughed from Pan AM, TWA, Eastern, etc.
Dude, you all need some perspective here regarding the QOL at Fedex, UPS vs. literally everyone else. Do things suck there now more than ever? Sure they do... Could they get worse? Absolutely.. But right now, most UPS pilots have a great QOL compared to every other 121 freight carrier (except maybe Fedex) and certainly better than every 135 freight carrier. Don't believe me, go take a survey at the hub or when you are jumpseating home on Saturday. Yes, it sucks what UPS did to your furloughees by having them move to ANC and then screwing them. But guess what, they have a UPS seniority number. I, and I'll bet most other non-UPS or Fedex pilot on this cargo forum, would rather be a furloughed UPS pilot than the most senior Captain at any other cargo carrier. Is it because UPS is so nice to its employees and treats them so great? Heck no! It's because the UPS pilot group is so great and the IPA kicks comparative a$$.
If the QOL at UPS is the worst you have ever had, boy am I and most other paeons here envious of you! That means that you must never have been a CFI, Regional pilot, banner tower, 135 freight pilot, 121 supplemental cargo pilot, minimum wage job, etc. "Paycheck- great for now?!?!" How many other cargo pilots can EVER say that? You remind me of this delightfully obtuse guy in my SDF crashpad whose nickname was "Unsat" because he was always saying how unsat things were at UPS. Unsat prided himself on the fact that the only civilian job that he ever held was at UPS. That means no lemonade stands, no grass cutting, no washing planes at an FBO, nothing. Unsat went from high school to college, then OCS, then USAF, and finally UPS. Unsat was hilarious because he was so out of touch in describing how awful his life was at UPS to guys who were fighting for their lives trying to survive Part 135 cargo flying without getting killed or violated. One time, Unsat actually jumpseated with us on our Falcon going to SDF. This was out of LAX and for ONCE in my part 135 cargo career I GOT A CREW MEAL!!!!!! This ONCE IN A 135 CARGO PILOT LIFETIME crew meal was all they could find for us and must have cost them a fortune cause it had like 4 courses, came with orchids, and was in a nice box. But since we said we were not flying unless we ate, they got it for us.
Unsat couldn't believe our crew meal... Being innocently and cluelessly demeaning of us, he said "Hey, do you guys eat like this all the time?" The other pilot and I looked at each other and back at him and said "don't you?" We had fun stirring him up... "Yeah, if I were you, I'd call Bob Miller at home tonight and raise holy hell that we get better crew meals than you"
. And he's like, "Hey, no offense, but we should be getting at Least what you subcontractors get". We had him ready to file a grievance as soon as he got to SDF. One of one of my other UPS roomies made me finally tell him that we didn't get that catering all the time or ever and he was actually relieved .We really got Unsat all stirred up at the hub one night (back in the day, we sat in the cafeteria right next to the UPS pilots) because we told him that his freight dog sticker on his flight bag was posing. He didn't understand that he truly was NOT a real freight dog. If you have a union, association, or a contract, you are not a freight dog. If you have an A, B, or any fund, you are not a freight dog. If you are in CASS or KCM, you are not a freight dog ("Sorry, you aren't on our list..."). If your plane came from the factory as a freighter, you are not a freight dog. Real freight dogs come from KYIP and fly non-known ice P210 or Lances over Lake Michigan at night, hands and shirt dirty from loading the greasy automotive parts by hand. Freight dogs also load and unload thousands of pounds into a Metro, Caravan, etc. after having to wait out on the SDF ramp in the freezing cold with no APU for heat(I hear that UPS wants to keep the subcontractors out at the planes these days, but I wouldn't know that for sure since I'm not a real freight dog anymore, either). Ask them about their Pay and QOL in comparison to yours, even as an '07 hire.
In the end, Unsat ended up leaving UPS for the "Majors" like so many other UPS pilots who bailed in the late 90's 'til Sept. 11. Unsat ended up getting furloughed from a Major and I shed a tear for him. Unsat wasn't a bad guy (Just delightfully and innocently obtuse) and didn't deserve that fate. Whether the humbling and humiliating experience of being furloughed brought him back down to Earth, I don't know. But I am sure that he and most others who left wish that they had stayed there.
So back to where this thread started, most of the middle class cargo jobs are gone, and much like our new economy it's the Super rich and the very poor in Cargo, with a handful of good middle class cargo carriers left. Yes, that's hyperbole because UPS and Fedex are far from perfect and Amerijet must have something good going for it. Chances are your QOL, pay, and everything else of at a YIP or MIA based freight carrier will be much less than at an SDF or MEM based cargo carrier. Most real freight dogs can tell you that with great ease.
Finally, to the UPS pilot who used the scab word to compare to someone with whom he disagreed, to use that word for someone who isn't a scab only dilutes its true meaning. I can say that having walked a picket line... At UPS. So no, I don't work for UPS and I'm sure that with my picture in UPS Loss Prevention files from that night during the strike, no I'll never work at UPS, either. But the great majority of my many, many friends that work there (many from "the Majors") agree that it is the best job that they ever had despite "being up late, flying freight, for people you hate".
Good luck to all the real freight dogs out there and to the airline pilots who just happen to fly freight. Flame away!
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