dckozak

You know your union has repeatedly tried to talk to "the other party" about positions near and dear to us during presidential elections. ALPA is keenly aware of the political disposition of the average airline pilot. Past candidates for president (from one of the major parties) have either been evasive or outright fail to answer simple questions that relate to our profession.
On the other hand, the "other guys" tell us (related again to issues that are important to our livelihoods, safety or QOL) more of what we would like to hear from elected officials who have as much influence as they do over us highly regulated industry.

As apposed to, say, lobbyists who's job is to influence for whats best for all the people.

You guys are like a dog with a bone; just can't let go of an issue.
The last time I recall, ALPA could not craft and pass laws, that was the power of congress. While you can fault ALPA for "caving" on this issue, I don't think the boys at SWA get nearly enough credit for their influence in lobbying on behalf of age 65. Ask your friends there, they will boast about there power to have made this happen.

FDXLAG

Yeah I remember that survey. Do you? Not one question on taxes. Whole lot of questions on teachers union issues. Most likely a bunch of questions on health care, which of course we are now afraid of. I can frame a survey that would make Barry look like a pilot hating management tool if I wanted to.


In a perfect world lobbyists would spend their money not mine. But thanks to our big government Alpapac recipients, lobbyists get to fight over how much of my money they spend. If it wasn't for big government we wouldn't have lobbyists.

Looking at my posts I am more militant then most of you big spending "labor" fanatics. My biggest disappointment with ALPA was when they rolled over and allowed FDX to implement the FOX system unilaterally taking away at least $200 from each commuters bank with accepted fares and ground transportation cancellations. Not only did they not fix it they actively discouraged grievances.

dckozak

Your right, I don't remember the survey your alluding to. I do remember (a couple of elections ago) questions being presented to the candidates during the primaries and some not answering ALPA surveys at all and the answers from others being decidedly anti-labor/union. As far a teachers being unionized, most have a good health care and retirement package but the pay wouldn't impress a regional FO. I guess if thier clout vis vie organizing, politicking, or striking was so great, we'd be whining why we didn't go into education rather than flying!



I'm not as connected to the process as much as some on these boards. We as a group don't have unlimited power to persuade. You can't strike on the things that matter, and our ability to win the battle with arbitration is, well....

MEMFO4Ever

We actually do, but it has been deemed "illegal" by Government Inc. IMO airline contracts, like most other contracts, should have an expiration. No contract by that date? No work.

Not enough influence to change the system, especially with half the seniority list annually making bank even without a new contract. Comfort zones are hard to break out of and no one here is going to fall on their sword for principle's sake. We have demonstrated this as a group over and over again. Bottom line, it is just a job and we should take as much as we can and run, just like the guys at the top of the corporate food chain.

Gunter

This is the reason it was never challenged before it became an accepted practice. The "important" people at the time were not interested in working it.

Anger over that fact leads to more "contractor syndrome". The damage to unity can be substantial.

I'm glad we got rid of those who decided accepted fares were not worth protecting for the average crew member. I do know they get "fixed" if the right person raises the issue.

I'm hopeful the replacements can fix this issue even as they tell the company to stick PBS in a dark place.

GOFRTRS

Having worked 121 for both union & non-union employers I would NEVER give up the protection present under the law provided by union representation. Anything else is leaving your future, career advancement, security (& that of your family) almost completely to the whim of management. Not a wise choice....only my opinion.

IntheBiz

I'll never understand the mind of a pilot. I dont think I have ever met one that was not an ultra-right wing conservative that wants to put the POTUS in jail. My best friend flies for Netjets after having done his 12 years or so at Regionals hoping to get on with Delta.
He hates Unions. He thinks Unions killed America. When GM got bailed out, he felt that the Union worker didn't deserve to earn the $25/hr they earned (thats $52k yr)

Did you know that Netjets was Union? When asked why he was in a Union for what is essentially a corporate flight dept, flying - get this - 3 times a month, he said "to keep them from exploiting me and making me work for lower pay or unsafe conditions'.
WOW. You deserve that but the auto worker, aircraft mechanic, welder, teacher, etc., doesn't?
Yet he votes Red all the way.

TO BE SURE, unions are NO saints either. They are human beings and we will all push the limit with our employer as far as we can.
Look at NWA. The mechanics went with AMFA, they got a good raise, got too greedy, got lazy - GOT replaced.
NWA went from what, 4400 mechanics to 880 and didnt skip a beat.
I clearly remember walking through hangar shops and seeing guys sitting reading the newspaper during work hours and the supervisor saying that he couldnt fire or motivate any of them.

What protects Pilots in the US? Cabotage rules I think. There are laws preventing foreign airlines from flying domestically and ther must be a law preventing foreign pilot groups from flying Domestically as well - if there wasnt, businesses would sure as hell be doing it.

I think absolute power corrupts absolutely. Both sides do this.
This generation is suffering the consequences of not supporting Unions, and Unions are suffering from not just their own (somewhat) greed, but their inefficiency that made businesses betray their country to begin with. Big business is winning and is legislating
to 'lock in' their wins.

But I see pilots vote for a Party who's whole purpose since Reagan was to destroy Unions - and therefore them.
I'll never understand it.

B727DRVR

Boy are you "right", Biz,

As a former YR who proudly worked on two Presidential campaigns in the '80's and who had the pleasure of flying one of their VP's, I can honestly say that I am disgusted what has become my former beloved Party of Lincoln. Hijacked by the radical right "Christian Taliban" and the tinfoil hat crowd (to keep out the government spy waves from getting into their heads and finding out where they keep the guns at), and fed constant disinformation by Faux News and Drudge, I am now considered a RINO by these upstarts who hijacked the party I served with pride. Mainly because I believe that the government has no business in womens bodies, much to the chagrin of my friends in the "legitimate-rape Christian Taliban" who say they hate government overreach, except when it comes to oversight of womens bodies. Then they want lots of laws and regulations.

Pilots proudly wear their union and "I will strike" pins, denounce Managements corporate greed, hate scabs, etc., but will regularly vote for those who openly try to sabotage workers rights. And in a brilliant twist of Stockholm Syndrome, this party has gotten the fury of the public aimed not at the Billionaires that outsourced their jobs, but at the poor teacher who makes, god forbid, $60,000 a year plus a pention. Then there are the Delta pilots, who I would regularly have on my jumpseat (no, not all Delta pilots), who wanted their union but didn't want their Flight Attendant fellow crewmembers to have a union. Amazing.

Many of my former Military crewmembers were incensed with having to join a union when they hired on with me, but are now some of the most ardent and vocal supporters and leaders of the union. But they mostly vote for the people who hate unions.

Finally, as I walk through the crew rooms, bunk rooms, and FBO's in this country, I have found Faux News playing in nearly every one of them. Pilots must be ignoring the Fox News message of "Union Bad".. Rush, Hannity, O'Reily, and Fox and Friends must definitely be disappointed with pilots and their nasty, troublesome unions.

FDXLAG

Yawn.

Once again, most pilots I know prioritize. They have God, Family, Country and Job. How they prioritize is their business, thanks for letting us know what is number 1 in your book.

When I joined FedEx, most of the pilots I knew (particularly the military) were glad to be in a union and didn't mind paying their 2% as they thought it was a good bargain. You know in case the company arbitrarily fired them while they were "based" in HKG or something.

Oh and Sean, Rush, and Bill all union members. They just realize that borrowing money from the Chinese and your grandkids when you are broke is not a good business decision.

FrankTheTank

Not all unions are the same! I do not believe in public unions that fight for taxpayer dollars and not corporate dollars.