Twin engined MD-11?
08-31-2013, 04:44 AM
#61
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It was, indeed, the 787 that killed our 777 BCF's.
We were in the final stages of negotiating for 30+ 777-200's from Singapore Airlines.
Then the 787 test program had that onboard fire, and deliveries kept sliding to the right. Singapore was still willing to do the deal, but kept jacking up the price on the airframes.
About that time Boeing got the new tanker contract, and suddenly got real interested in selling us 767's to keep that line open until the tanker deliveries start in 2017.
The 777 BCF is still a program at Boeing. There will definitely be a market for them, but I think FDX will probably do like Delta did a decade ago - make lots of plans for a giant fleet of 777's, then end up with a bunch more 767's instead....
We were in the final stages of negotiating for 30+ 777-200's from Singapore Airlines.
Then the 787 test program had that onboard fire, and deliveries kept sliding to the right. Singapore was still willing to do the deal, but kept jacking up the price on the airframes.
About that time Boeing got the new tanker contract, and suddenly got real interested in selling us 767's to keep that line open until the tanker deliveries start in 2017.
The 777 BCF is still a program at Boeing. There will definitely be a market for them, but I think FDX will probably do like Delta did a decade ago - make lots of plans for a giant fleet of 777's, then end up with a bunch more 767's instead....
08-31-2013, 04:46 AM
#62
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Posts: 1,408
I think that the order of development is backwards. Douglas had proposed a 2 engine version of the DC-10. A key selling point was the parts commonality between the planes. Had they launched the program, they would have beat the A-300 and B-767 to market by years. The decision to not build it was due in large part to the American accident in ORD.
The key point being that the 3 engine version was first.
The key point being that the 3 engine version was first.
Originally Posted by CtYank66
FWIW, the original design for the DC10 offered to American was a twin engine widebody capable to fly LGA-ORD. It even was called an air bus.
So the DC10 twin was already proposed in 1968.
Lockheed had TWA, EAL, DAL, BA, NE, AC, ANA signed up for the Tri-Star and was about to get UAL.
UAL wanted a widebody that could operate DEN- LGA on a hot summer day so the L1011 was ahead of the twin DC10.
Almost as an afterthought another engine appeared in the tail fin (vertical stab.) and the three motored DC10 could operate the UAL required legs.
Much speculation that if Douglas stuck with the twin, the Airbus company would not have had a market.
Maybe the USA would still have three major commercial aircraft companies????
Of course all of the x-box gamers would not have a career sitting in the front of of a programmed, winged piece of equipment?
So the DC10 twin was already proposed in 1968.
Lockheed had TWA, EAL, DAL, BA, NE, AC, ANA signed up for the Tri-Star and was about to get UAL.
UAL wanted a widebody that could operate DEN- LGA on a hot summer day so the L1011 was ahead of the twin DC10.
Almost as an afterthought another engine appeared in the tail fin (vertical stab.) and the three motored DC10 could operate the UAL required legs.
Much speculation that if Douglas stuck with the twin, the Airbus company would not have had a market.
Maybe the USA would still have three major commercial aircraft companies????
Of course all of the x-box gamers would not have a career sitting in the front of of a programmed, winged piece of equipment?
08-31-2013, 07:52 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by MaxxPower
GE90's are far fetched but the concept is not...
UPS modded their 727's with RR engines on #1 & #3 with an derate on the #2 to create a "zero thrust" situation. This solved the problem of economics and noise, on the MD I would assume the same would be possible. Finding the right motor might be tough but maybe there's a better variant of the CF6 available or in development.
Don't be surprised if there's an STC already in the works.
UPS modded their 727's with RR engines on #1 & #3 with an derate on the #2 to create a "zero thrust" situation. This solved the problem of economics and noise, on the MD I would assume the same would be possible. Finding the right motor might be tough but maybe there's a better variant of the CF6 available or in development.
Don't be surprised if there's an STC already in the works.
WRONG!!!! UPS had Tays in all THREE positions. Where do you come up with such nonsense?
08-31-2013, 08:28 AM
#65
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A good book on the DC-10, the L1011 and the "airbus" contest in the late sixties:
Destination disaster: From the Tri-Motor to the DC-10, the risk of flying: Paul Eddy, Elaine Potter, Bruce Page: 9780812906196: Amazon.com: Books
Destination disaster: From the Tri-Motor to the DC-10, the risk of flying: Paul Eddy, Elaine Potter, Bruce Page: 9780812906196: Amazon.com: Books
08-31-2013, 09:01 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by MEMbrain
WRONG!!!! UPS had Tays in all THREE positions. Where do you come up with such nonsense?
You have been served
Last edited by MaxxPower; 08-31-2013 at 09:12 PM.
08-31-2013, 10:13 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by MaxxPower
There's two different mods, the Valsan and the Dee Howard, the Dee Howard left the jt8 intact.
You have been served
You have been served
09-01-2013, 08:49 AM
#68
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The MD11's wing would easily have the strength for the mod suggested in this thread due to the improved load distribution inherent in the design. However, the wing itself is an out of date design which would not match the performance of the B767=300ER. The MD-11's wing was out of date on the DC-10 ....
The engines would have to be very light weight to balance the loss of the Center engine and the design gets by with a minimum of horizontal stabilizer surface area to begin with.
09-01-2013, 03:51 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by MaxxPower
There's two different mods, the Valsan and the Dee Howard, the Dee Howard left the jt8 intact.
Dee Howard may have had another mod on the drawing board, but it's not the one purchased by UPS.
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