FrankTheTank

So what's your point?

I flew with a high mins Captain that kept falling asleep. I asked what was wrong. He said he went to bed too late and was tired. He then told me to just fly the jet and wake him at the marker so he could be rested for the landing. YGTBSM.

Nothing is going to change anytime soon. We all push it at times. BUT we also need to know when to call "uncle"! Not a manager. Maybe a reality check but he doesn't know just how I feel.

Jetjok

Frank,

I guess if I had a point to my last comment it would be that not "everyone" is bright enough to know when to call uncle, and as such it's up to the other crewmembers to recognize and to be on the lookout for poor performance, both in ourselves as well as the other pilot. I agree with you that it's not a managers place to tell one when he can or can't fly, based on perceived fitness for duty.

FDXLAG

Obviously the F/O did not have a fully functioning S/O. Had he had one performing coffee b!tch duties none of the rest would have happened.

The Walrus

Maybe I'm just too drunk to fish, but I cannot find an FC post on PFC. Maybe it has been removed, or I just do not know what FC stands for.Was this an aircraft specific post that I do not get or do I need to put the cork in the Dickel bottle?

Jetjok

You're right. I should have hit him upside his head with the jug.

Pakagecheck

Step 1. Cork in Dickel
Step 2. sign on to PFC.
Step 3. Click on article, "welcome back..."
Step 4. pull cork from Dickel
Step 5. read said article.

The Walrus

That's all I needed. a checklist to follow. I'm not as drunk as I knew I was.

kronan

Think FC may refer to all of the Flight Coordination breaking down the wall articles.

The "Welcome Back Mr Smith" article encompasses many areas, but is specific (kind of) to the MD.

I tend to think all of us have misjudged how tired we were at least once during our FedEx career. Hopefully it's something we've learned from in order to recognize our own personal limits. And, I sincerely hope it's something we are all honest about when we gather at the folder. If both of us are wicked tired at the folder, then we have to evaluate whether we can safely complete the flight and determine whether continuing is the best option.....just as passing minimums is not a commitment to land, neither is being past check-in a commitment to complete the trip.

FedEx is a very fatigue friendly company, just ask MGT. I would greatly prefer the ACP's ask me why I think I'm sufficiently rested to operate said pairing. Answer might be rest at home, a nap on the J/S in, or napping in the expanded sleep rooms (Thanks MGT, long overdue, greatly appreciated). I might be the rare guy who is a 5-6 hours of sleep, period. Previous experience provides a base line that each pilot should use to evaluate his fitness for duty.

If the 13:30 is so hardcore at show time, then why even consider letting someone hub turn into a 15 hour operational day (Optional assignment operational limits)

I will admit that I haven't perused the new rest FARs, but if the 13:30 JS provision is so hard core that an ACP will remove you from a trip (totally misunderstanding what the 13:30 contractual verbiage provides\requires) then surely our ACPs are pressing for MGT to voluntarily comply with this more restrictive FAR in the interest of safety. After all, when the NTSB does the look back, it's quite possible they will point out the differences in how cargo pilots duty periods compare to the more stringent rest requirements other airlines have to comply with.

4A2B

It is funny, or maybe disturbing, that this topic circulates through MGT on a regular basis. At the end of the day there appears to be more Corporate "risk" concern vs. conducting an actual "fitness for duty" evaluation. Knowing where a pilot physically was is not an objective or deciding factor on whether or not ANY pilot ,commuter or local, is ready to fly. Throw in the concerns of how to manage an augmented crew and it becomes a real mess.

The NTSB will do the same 72 hour (not 48) look back if something happens and they can evaluate real fatigue factors. For example the Colgan FO commuted all night from the west coast through MEM to EWR and then slept in the crew room before imitating a very long duty day and I am certain that was a factor that did not look good or add to that pilots alertness level.

All that being said, jumping into work when you are not protected from discipline is not a good move, especially since most long flights are part of a longer pay trip. It is still the pilots choice, period, and it is NOT duty. The only way to "fix" this problem is to have an objective look at each and every pilot at show and do an evaluation through interview and or scientific testing to analyze alertness levels. If we did that, not many jets would move at 0300. If a pilot proves to be not fit for duty, the other pilot(s) should either ask that pilot to call in fatigue or if not discovered until the flight commences discuss why the problems exists and if necessary utilize Pro Stan and/or ASAP. If MGT is worried about fatigue then they should be as pro active with taking back the control of some of these horrible pairings and stop picking low hanging fruit and once again blaming pilots for perceived bad habits.

Pakagecheck

old - ACP
new - FC.