Atlas Crew Lands Dreamlifter Wrong Airport
11-23-2013, 06:49 AM
#151
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
No one is immune to mistakes. We've all put ourselves in positions that could turn out less than optimum. Night visual approaches are a high threat environment.
Have you ever called "traffic in sight" at night? What kind of airplane is it? Are you sure? All you see are lights. Hope they're not the wrong set.
We can all learn from other people's errors without slinging mud at them.
Remember: "There but for the grace of God, go I."
Have you ever called "traffic in sight" at night? What kind of airplane is it? Are you sure? All you see are lights. Hope they're not the wrong set.
We can all learn from other people's errors without slinging mud at them.
Remember: "There but for the grace of God, go I."
11-23-2013, 07:59 AM
#152
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
Clamp...from a Delta guy whose folks came in from South America and landed on the taxiway in ATL...or Hank Duffy's DC-9 wrong airport excursion...that's a rich comment.
Or is the "Grits Mafia" pure as the driven snow?
Maybe you should be more concerned about how ol' Lee is gonna explain DPA at the next Exec Board meeting...
Or is the "Grits Mafia" pure as the driven snow?
Maybe you should be more concerned about how ol' Lee is gonna explain DPA at the next Exec Board meeting...
Ill let you try again.
11-23-2013, 08:38 AM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,978
Interesting timing of this FAA safety SAIB:
FAA Safety Team | Safer Skies Through Education
SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS INFORMATION BULLETIN: CE-14-04
Notice Number: NOTC5068
SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS INFORMATION BULLETIN
SAIB: CE-14-04
Flight Management Computing Systems; Navigation Database Updates - Data and Procedural Exclusions
Date: November 22, 2013
Introduction
This Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin is written to inform and remind owners and operators about changes contained in manufacturers’ navigation database updates. The cyclical updates may exclude certain navigation data including approach procedures, which makes this information unavailable for selection on the aircraft flight management system or navigation equipment.
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has determined that the airworthiness concern is not an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive (AD) action under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 39. The FAA continues to monitor these issues with the original equipment manufacturers (OEMs).
Background
The FAA occasionally has received inquiries regarding missing data within the aircraft’s flight management system or navigation unit. In many scenarios, a pilot has attempted to select or load a particular approach, but is unable to do so and must determine an alternative in flight. This has often led to confusion and questions about how or why the data appears to be missing.
From time-to-time, avionics manufacturers may exclude procedures from the aviation database. The causes driving such removals vary, and while some data may be reinstated one cycle later, other data may remain excluded for longer periods of time.
It is important to note that each avionics manufacturer processes the aeronautical data differently, and procedures excluded on one aircraft or system may not be excluded on another. Avionics manufacturers make data exclusion information available to their customers for consideration before use of affected data in flight operations. Exclusions can frequently be found on the avionics manufacturer’s internet website or may be published in another format as part of the new database cycle.
Recommendations
The FAA recommends that pilots do the following:
1) Become familiar with the most appropriate location where they can find information regarding exclusions from the database that can affect their flight operations.
2) Exercise diligence in their preflight planning by staying informed about data exclusions pertaining to the type of avionics they utilize.
For Further Information Contact
Dan Withers, Program Manager, FAA Wichita ACO, 1801 Airport Road, Room 100, Wichita, KS 67209, telephone: (316) 946-4137, fax: (316) 946-4129, e-mail: [email protected].
This notice is being sent to you because you selected "General Information" in your preferences on FAASafety.gov. If you wish to adjust your selections, log into https://www.faasafety.gov/Users/pub/preferences.aspx where you can update your preferences.
SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS INFORMATION BULLETIN: CE-14-04
Notice Number: NOTC5068
SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS INFORMATION BULLETIN
SAIB: CE-14-04
Flight Management Computing Systems; Navigation Database Updates - Data and Procedural Exclusions
Date: November 22, 2013
Introduction
This Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin is written to inform and remind owners and operators about changes contained in manufacturers’ navigation database updates. The cyclical updates may exclude certain navigation data including approach procedures, which makes this information unavailable for selection on the aircraft flight management system or navigation equipment.
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has determined that the airworthiness concern is not an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive (AD) action under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 39. The FAA continues to monitor these issues with the original equipment manufacturers (OEMs).
Background
The FAA occasionally has received inquiries regarding missing data within the aircraft’s flight management system or navigation unit. In many scenarios, a pilot has attempted to select or load a particular approach, but is unable to do so and must determine an alternative in flight. This has often led to confusion and questions about how or why the data appears to be missing.
From time-to-time, avionics manufacturers may exclude procedures from the aviation database. The causes driving such removals vary, and while some data may be reinstated one cycle later, other data may remain excluded for longer periods of time.
It is important to note that each avionics manufacturer processes the aeronautical data differently, and procedures excluded on one aircraft or system may not be excluded on another. Avionics manufacturers make data exclusion information available to their customers for consideration before use of affected data in flight operations. Exclusions can frequently be found on the avionics manufacturer’s internet website or may be published in another format as part of the new database cycle.
Recommendations
The FAA recommends that pilots do the following:
1) Become familiar with the most appropriate location where they can find information regarding exclusions from the database that can affect their flight operations.
2) Exercise diligence in their preflight planning by staying informed about data exclusions pertaining to the type of avionics they utilize.
For Further Information Contact
Dan Withers, Program Manager, FAA Wichita ACO, 1801 Airport Road, Room 100, Wichita, KS 67209, telephone: (316) 946-4137, fax: (316) 946-4129, e-mail: [email protected].
This notice is being sent to you because you selected "General Information" in your preferences on FAASafety.gov. If you wish to adjust your selections, log into https://www.faasafety.gov/Users/pub/preferences.aspx where you can update your preferences.
11-23-2013, 10:21 AM
#154
Working weekends
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
Audio of ATC comms
Boeing 747 Dreamlifter lands at Wichita Jabara airport by mistake - 21 November 2013 - YouTube
Not sure why GPS coordinates needed to be discussed while on the ground for 10 minutes.....
Boeing 747 Dreamlifter lands at Wichita Jabara airport by mistake - 21 November 2013 - YouTube
Not sure why GPS coordinates needed to be discussed while on the ground for 10 minutes.....
11-23-2013, 03:13 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
AVIATION RULES AND REMINDERS
* Takeoff's are optional. Landings are mandatory.
* If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger, if you pull the stick back they get smaller. Unless you keep pulling the stick back...then they get bigger again.
* Flying is not dangerous; crashing is dangerous.
* The propeller is just a big fan in the front of the plane to keep the pilot cool. Want proof? Make it stop; then watch the pilot break out into a sweat.
* The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
* Every one already knows the definition of a 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. But very few know the definition of a 'great landing.' It's one after which you can use the airplane another time.
* The probability of survival is equal to the angle of arrival.
* A helicopter is a collection of rotating parts going round and round and reciprocating parts going up and down -- all of them trying to become random in motion. Helicopters can't really fly -- they're just so ugly that the earth immediately repels them.
* Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself.
* There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing: Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
* The only thing worse than a captain who never flew as co-pilot is a co-pilot who once was a captain.
* It's easy to make a small fortune in aviation. You start with a large fortune.
* A male pilot is a confused soul who talks about women when he's flying, and about flying when he's with a woman.
* Try to keep the number of your landings equal to the number of your takeoffs.
* Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a fire hydrant what it thinks about dogs.
* Takeoff's are optional. Landings are mandatory.
* If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger, if you pull the stick back they get smaller. Unless you keep pulling the stick back...then they get bigger again.
* Flying is not dangerous; crashing is dangerous.
* The propeller is just a big fan in the front of the plane to keep the pilot cool. Want proof? Make it stop; then watch the pilot break out into a sweat.
* The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
* Every one already knows the definition of a 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. But very few know the definition of a 'great landing.' It's one after which you can use the airplane another time.
* The probability of survival is equal to the angle of arrival.
* A helicopter is a collection of rotating parts going round and round and reciprocating parts going up and down -- all of them trying to become random in motion. Helicopters can't really fly -- they're just so ugly that the earth immediately repels them.
* Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself.
* There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing: Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
* The only thing worse than a captain who never flew as co-pilot is a co-pilot who once was a captain.
* It's easy to make a small fortune in aviation. You start with a large fortune.
* A male pilot is a confused soul who talks about women when he's flying, and about flying when he's with a woman.
* Try to keep the number of your landings equal to the number of your takeoffs.
* Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a fire hydrant what it thinks about dogs.
11-23-2013, 04:06 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by captjns
Sure.. The cues of an airport with a 12,000 runway are the same as a 6,001' runway, not to mention the aprons
.
.
11-23-2013, 07:13 PM
#158
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Did they do an ocean crossing before this flight? It takes a tremendous lack of crosscheck and disregard of path/energy management to pull this off.
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
Clamp...from a Delta guy whose folks came in from South America and landed on the taxiway in ATL...or Hank Duffy's DC-9 wrong airport excursion...that's a rich comment.
Or is the "Grits Mafia" pure as the driven snow?
Maybe you should be more concerned about how ol' Lee is gonna explain DPA at the next Exec Board meeting...
Or is the "Grits Mafia" pure as the driven snow?
Maybe you should be more concerned about how ol' Lee is gonna explain DPA at the next Exec Board meeting...
I was asking factually if they had done a crossing prior to the JFK leg... i.e. asking how fatigued they possibly were.
They were obviously very disoriented, and I was trying to find information that could lead to them losing all cross check and totally blowing off the RNAV approach on which they were cleared. On top of that, you typically manage your configuration depending on where you are on the approach- diving in 6 miles early had to have thrown a big wrench in their planning. Not tossing stones... I'm asking how they got to that point.
Feel free to read, fire, aim again though.
11-24-2013, 12:50 AM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,903
Originally Posted by Larry in TN
When the 6,001' runway is also one-third narrower than the 12,000' runway they really don't look all that much different at night.
Anyone see my garlic breadstick?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
