Atlas Crew Lands Dreamlifter Wrong Airport
11-24-2013 | 08:01 AM
#171
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: MD-11 Captain
Huh? With that criteria ... ALL runways look the same in the dark (long and wide, except for this one ... it wasn't very long or wide)? How does anyone EVER land at the correct airport!*?
The ATC recordings suggest he thought he was SOUTH of the airport ... what airport did he think he was at? DFW is somewhere south of there? It has a runway that's long and wide also?
11-24-2013 | 08:24 AM
#172
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
11-24-2013 | 08:37 AM
#173
La Familia Delta
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,467
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From: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Allow me to interject since I'm now a high risk candidate for landing at the wrong airport. In the past year, both the airplanes I currently fly (747-400 and c-17) have landed at the wrong airport. Both airplanes have "magenta lines" and a thousand ways to back up the approach. One of them has a HUD.
The c17 was being flown by a crew of all instructors (check airman equivalent)
The Atlas 747-400 crew by default is very senior (most junior captain is 12 years or so).
So what's our takeaway? It was a bad day, we've all experienced such incredible fatigue that we swear up and down we didn't do what we just did.
The c17 was being flown by a crew of all instructors (check airman equivalent)
The Atlas 747-400 crew by default is very senior (most junior captain is 12 years or so).
So what's our takeaway? It was a bad day, we've all experienced such incredible fatigue that we swear up and down we didn't do what we just did.
11-24-2013 | 08:52 AM
#174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 13,843
Likes: 1
From: FAA 'Flight Check'
Allow me to interject since I'm now a high risk candidate for landing at the wrong airport. In the past year, both the airplanes I currently fly (747-400 and c-17) have landed at the wrong airport. Both airplanes have "magenta lines" and a thousand ways to back up the approach. One of them has a HUD.
The c17 was being flown by a crew of all instructors (check airman equivalent)
The Atlas 747-400 crew by default is very senior (most junior captain is 12 years or so).
So what's our takeaway? It was a bad day, we've all experienced such incredible fatigue that we swear up and down we didn't do what we just did.
The c17 was being flown by a crew of all instructors (check airman equivalent)
The Atlas 747-400 crew by default is very senior (most junior captain is 12 years or so).
So what's our takeaway? It was a bad day, we've all experienced such incredible fatigue that we swear up and down we didn't do what we just did.
I know that fatigue is certainly a drum to beat in the industry to try and get out dated work rules changed/improved, but it seems as much as some jump to citing causes and it is often beaten on in the forums that we should let the investigation be conducted before spouting off causal factors, that citing fatigue is often an accepted practice without any evidence of such actually being the case.
Then the CAMI goes off on a wild goose chase to investigate OSA, which directly relates to fatigue, and transportation/safety related folks regulated by the DOT clamor about unfair practices.
Americans in general are a fatigued bunch.
Sleep Deprivation in America: Risks and Effects
For the past few years, the Sleep in America polls -- conducted on behalf of the National Sleep Foundation - have provided a snapshot of the nation's bedroom woes. Today, about 20% of Americans report that they get less than 6 hours of sleep on average, and the number of Americans that report that they get 8 hours of more has decreased.
"It's no secret that we live in a 24/7 society," says Carl Hunt, MD, director of the National Center on Sleep Disorders Research at the National Institutes of Health. "There are many more opportunities to do things other than sleep - 24-hour cable TV, the Internet, email, plus long work shifts."
"It's no secret that we live in a 24/7 society," says Carl Hunt, MD, director of the National Center on Sleep Disorders Research at the National Institutes of Health. "There are many more opportunities to do things other than sleep - 24-hour cable TV, the Internet, email, plus long work shifts."
They WILL be made by aircrew and targeting the blue threat/risk assessment and operational risk management seeks to reduce those risks.
At the same time, you have to be able to stand up and say 'I/we/they made a mistake' and look at how to prevent similar mistakes in the future. However this came about - in the end - they failed in their mission.
11-24-2013 | 09:03 AM
#175
Line Holder
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11-24-2013 | 09:03 AM
#176
Banned
Joined: Nov 2013
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From: 7th green
11-24-2013 | 09:42 AM
#177
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: B747-400 Cpt retired
You have in no way refuted the point made by "Larry in TN" and by me. Of course it is necessary to use all other cues to avoid landing at the wrong airport.
Yeah... I guess anyone can confuse the difference of A1 and A5 lighting system not to mention the location of the rotating beacon well illustrated on the 10-9 chart of the Jeppy and the Gov. Charts.
No hangars on the east side of KAAO. Soooo? Anyone?
Mc Connell Air Force Base
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1312/00453IL19R.PDF
Colonel James Jabara Airport
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1312/06234ILD18.PDF
Approach briefings go a long long way especially when there are numerous airports with runways aligned in the same direction in the vicinity.
No hangars on the east side of KAAO. Soooo? Anyone?
Mc Connell Air Force Base
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1312/00453IL19R.PDF
Colonel James Jabara Airport
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1312/06234ILD18.PDF
Approach briefings go a long long way especially when there are numerous airports with runways aligned in the same direction in the vicinity.
11-24-2013 | 11:10 AM
#178
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,208
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From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
I flew or a Euro carrier that served, Newquay (EGHQ), a former B52 tech stop airport. The visual issues I had was the width of the runway adjusting the sight picture for the flare.
11-24-2013 | 11:57 AM
#179
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 2
From: 747
There seems to be an absurd fixation on this landing by some of the posters here.
A plane landed at the wrong airport, that's all. It could have been a lot better. It could have been a lot worse. But in the grand scheme of aviation incidents, it's really not that big of a deal. There were no injuries. No damage to the plane. There was no damage to other planes. No international violations. The plane spent less than a day in the wrong place and then continued on its way.
We expect the media to hype a story way out of proportion, but it seems like some pilots here are ramping this thing up like Geraldo Rivera on speed.
As has been pointed out in numerous posts here, this is not an isolated incident. Northwest, TWA, BAX, Continental, United, and Delta have all landed jets at wrong airports. Heck, even the U. S. Navy landed a jet on the wrong aircraft carrier. None of these pilots wanted to screw up and yet they all did despite all sorts of reasons that they shouldn't have.
It Happens. Get over it.
Did the crew screw up? Since they obviously didn't land at AAO on purpose, it sure seems like it. But there will be a chain of events that led up to this that will be uncovered by people with far more access than any of us will ever have and they will issue the report with recommendations. Until then, it is pointless to speculate.
And for those who think this could never happen to them, you may want to rethink your position on this. That kind of invincible mindset is foolish and potentially dangerous. Better to decide that it COULD happen to you and then implement procedures to make sure it doesn't ever happen.
8
A plane landed at the wrong airport, that's all. It could have been a lot better. It could have been a lot worse. But in the grand scheme of aviation incidents, it's really not that big of a deal. There were no injuries. No damage to the plane. There was no damage to other planes. No international violations. The plane spent less than a day in the wrong place and then continued on its way.
We expect the media to hype a story way out of proportion, but it seems like some pilots here are ramping this thing up like Geraldo Rivera on speed.
As has been pointed out in numerous posts here, this is not an isolated incident. Northwest, TWA, BAX, Continental, United, and Delta have all landed jets at wrong airports. Heck, even the U. S. Navy landed a jet on the wrong aircraft carrier. None of these pilots wanted to screw up and yet they all did despite all sorts of reasons that they shouldn't have.
It Happens. Get over it.
Did the crew screw up? Since they obviously didn't land at AAO on purpose, it sure seems like it. But there will be a chain of events that led up to this that will be uncovered by people with far more access than any of us will ever have and they will issue the report with recommendations. Until then, it is pointless to speculate.
And for those who think this could never happen to them, you may want to rethink your position on this. That kind of invincible mindset is foolish and potentially dangerous. Better to decide that it COULD happen to you and then implement procedures to make sure it doesn't ever happen.
8
11-24-2013 | 12:02 PM
#180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 975
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From: Babysitter
There seems to be an absurd fixation on this landing by some of the posters here.
A plane landed at the wrong airport, that's all. It could have been a lot better. It could have been a lot worse. But in the grand scheme of aviation incidents, it's really not that big of a deal. There were no injuries. No damage to the plane. There was no damage to other planes. No international violations. The plane spent less than a day in the wrong place and then continued on its way.
We expect the media to hype a story way out of proportion, but it seems like some pilots here are ramping this thing up like Geraldo Rivera on speed.
As has been pointed out in numerous posts here, this is not an isolated incident. Northwest, TWA, BAX, Continental, United, and Delta have all landed jets at wrong airports. Heck, even the U. S. Navy landed a jet on the wrong aircraft carrier. None of these pilots wanted to screw up and yet they all did despite all sorts of reasons that they shouldn't have.
It Happens. Get over it.
Did the crew screw up? Since they obviously didn't land at AAO on purpose, it sure seems like it. But there will be a chain of events that led up to this that will be uncovered by people with far more access than any of us will ever have and they will issue the report with recommendations. Until then, it is pointless to speculate.
And for those who think this could never happen to them, you may want to rethink your position on this. That kind of invincible mindset is foolish and potentially dangerous. Better to decide that it COULD happen to you and then implement procedures to make sure it doesn't ever happen.
8
A plane landed at the wrong airport, that's all. It could have been a lot better. It could have been a lot worse. But in the grand scheme of aviation incidents, it's really not that big of a deal. There were no injuries. No damage to the plane. There was no damage to other planes. No international violations. The plane spent less than a day in the wrong place and then continued on its way.
We expect the media to hype a story way out of proportion, but it seems like some pilots here are ramping this thing up like Geraldo Rivera on speed.
As has been pointed out in numerous posts here, this is not an isolated incident. Northwest, TWA, BAX, Continental, United, and Delta have all landed jets at wrong airports. Heck, even the U. S. Navy landed a jet on the wrong aircraft carrier. None of these pilots wanted to screw up and yet they all did despite all sorts of reasons that they shouldn't have.
It Happens. Get over it.
Did the crew screw up? Since they obviously didn't land at AAO on purpose, it sure seems like it. But there will be a chain of events that led up to this that will be uncovered by people with far more access than any of us will ever have and they will issue the report with recommendations. Until then, it is pointless to speculate.
And for those who think this could never happen to them, you may want to rethink your position on this. That kind of invincible mindset is foolish and potentially dangerous. Better to decide that it COULD happen to you and then implement procedures to make sure it doesn't ever happen.
8
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