Day sleeping
09-02-2014, 02:53 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: 75/76 Right
Posts: 102
My experience (and my friend who's a sleep doc agrees) is that melatonin is worthless for anyone doing shift work. If you work nights for an extended period of time and you need to adjust your sleeping times for the next month or three OR if you're just having trouble sleeping at night then it works. But melatonin is to regulate your sleep ie you must be sleeping/attempting to sleep at the same time every night. Does not work when you alternate backside/frontside every couple of days.
I flew cargo long haul for years and now passenger international, I find it's best to have a routine. But, as stated before, everyone is different.
No coffee within 4-6 hrs of bed
Dark & cold room
Earplugs
Shower to relax and brush teeth immediately
Absolutely no TV/iPad/anything electronic once in room
Agree with above poster, limit carbs and sugar as much as you can all day. Protein is the best. And actually I sleep best on an almost empty stomach... Last meal roughly 4 hrs before bed.
There are definitely good sleep aids out there... Just have to be careful (as OP said) when taking it within a certain time of flying. I am pretty sure ambien is allowed by the FAA if taken more than 24 hrs before a flight .... But don't quote me on that time.
I flew cargo long haul for years and now passenger international, I find it's best to have a routine. But, as stated before, everyone is different.
No coffee within 4-6 hrs of bed
Dark & cold room
Earplugs
Shower to relax and brush teeth immediately
Absolutely no TV/iPad/anything electronic once in room
Agree with above poster, limit carbs and sugar as much as you can all day. Protein is the best. And actually I sleep best on an almost empty stomach... Last meal roughly 4 hrs before bed.
There are definitely good sleep aids out there... Just have to be careful (as OP said) when taking it within a certain time of flying. I am pretty sure ambien is allowed by the FAA if taken more than 24 hrs before a flight .... But don't quote me on that time.
09-02-2014, 03:16 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: moving target
Posts: 385
If your mind is racing when you lie down, forget about sleep. Read a book.....or your flight manual.....until that sleeepy feeling sets in. I've found that if I force myself to try and sleep, I toss and turn for an hour or so and then give up and get up.
09-02-2014, 03:26 AM
#13
El Capitan
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 615
From the FAA Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners-
Occasional or limited use of sleep aids, such as for circadian rhythm disruption in commercial air operations, is allowable for pilots and air traffic controllers. Daily/nightly use of sleep aids is not allowed regardless of the underlying cause or reason. See Pharmaceutical Considerations below.
III. AEROMEDICAL DECISION CONSIDERATIONS: N/A
IV. PROTOCOL: N/A
V. PHARMACEUTICAL CONSIDERATIONS:
Because of the potential for impairment, we require a minimum wait time between the last dose of a sleep aid and performing pilot or ATCS duties. This wait time is based on the pharmacologic elimination half-life of the drug (half-life is the time it takes to clear half of the absorbed dose from the body). The minimum required wait time after the last dose of a sleep aid is 5-times the maximum elimination half-life.
The table on the following page lists several commonly prescribed sleep aids along with the required minimum wait times for each.
SLEEP AID WAIT TIMES
Trade Name Generic Name Required minimum waiting time after last dose before resuming pilot or ATCS duties Ambien zolpidem* 24 hours Ambien CR zolpidem (extended release) 24 hours Edluar zolpidem (dissolves under the tongue) 36 hours Intermezzo zolpidem (for middle of the night awakening) 36 hours Lunesta eszopiclone 30 hours Restoril temazepam 72 hours Rozerem ramelteon 24 hours Sonata zaleplon 6 hours Zolpimist zolpidem (as oral spray) 48 hours
* NOTE: The different formulations of zolpidem have different half-lives, thus different wait times.
Occasional or limited use of sleep aids, such as for circadian rhythm disruption in commercial air operations, is allowable for pilots and air traffic controllers. Daily/nightly use of sleep aids is not allowed regardless of the underlying cause or reason. See Pharmaceutical Considerations below.
III. AEROMEDICAL DECISION CONSIDERATIONS: N/A
IV. PROTOCOL: N/A
V. PHARMACEUTICAL CONSIDERATIONS:
Because of the potential for impairment, we require a minimum wait time between the last dose of a sleep aid and performing pilot or ATCS duties. This wait time is based on the pharmacologic elimination half-life of the drug (half-life is the time it takes to clear half of the absorbed dose from the body). The minimum required wait time after the last dose of a sleep aid is 5-times the maximum elimination half-life.
The table on the following page lists several commonly prescribed sleep aids along with the required minimum wait times for each.
SLEEP AID WAIT TIMES
Trade Name Generic Name Required minimum waiting time after last dose before resuming pilot or ATCS duties Ambien zolpidem* 24 hours Ambien CR zolpidem (extended release) 24 hours Edluar zolpidem (dissolves under the tongue) 36 hours Intermezzo zolpidem (for middle of the night awakening) 36 hours Lunesta eszopiclone 30 hours Restoril temazepam 72 hours Rozerem ramelteon 24 hours Sonata zaleplon 6 hours Zolpimist zolpidem (as oral spray) 48 hours
* NOTE: The different formulations of zolpidem have different half-lives, thus different wait times.
09-02-2014, 12:09 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: 75/76 Right
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by Kougarok
From the FAA Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners-
Occasional or limited use of sleep aids, such as for circadian rhythm disruption in commercial air operations, is allowable for pilots and air traffic controllers. Daily/nightly use of sleep aids is not allowed regardless of the underlying cause or reason. See Pharmaceutical Considerations below.
III. AEROMEDICAL DECISION CONSIDERATIONS: N/A
IV. PROTOCOL: N/A
V. PHARMACEUTICAL CONSIDERATIONS:
Because of the potential for impairment, we require a minimum wait time between the last dose of a sleep aid and performing pilot or ATCS duties. This wait time is based on the pharmacologic elimination half-life of the drug (half-life is the time it takes to clear half of the absorbed dose from the body). The minimum required wait time after the last dose of a sleep aid is 5-times the maximum elimination half-life.
The table on the following page lists several commonly prescribed sleep aids along with the required minimum wait times for each.
SLEEP AID WAIT TIMES
Trade Name Generic Name Required minimum waiting time after last dose before resuming pilot or ATCS duties Ambien zolpidem* 24 hours Ambien CR zolpidem (extended release) 24 hours Edluar zolpidem (dissolves under the tongue) 36 hours Intermezzo zolpidem (for middle of the night awakening) 36 hours Lunesta eszopiclone 30 hours Restoril temazepam 72 hours Rozerem ramelteon 24 hours Sonata zaleplon 6 hours Zolpimist zolpidem (as oral spray) 48 hours
* NOTE: The different formulations of zolpidem have different half-lives, thus different wait times.
Occasional or limited use of sleep aids, such as for circadian rhythm disruption in commercial air operations, is allowable for pilots and air traffic controllers. Daily/nightly use of sleep aids is not allowed regardless of the underlying cause or reason. See Pharmaceutical Considerations below.
III. AEROMEDICAL DECISION CONSIDERATIONS: N/A
IV. PROTOCOL: N/A
V. PHARMACEUTICAL CONSIDERATIONS:
Because of the potential for impairment, we require a minimum wait time between the last dose of a sleep aid and performing pilot or ATCS duties. This wait time is based on the pharmacologic elimination half-life of the drug (half-life is the time it takes to clear half of the absorbed dose from the body). The minimum required wait time after the last dose of a sleep aid is 5-times the maximum elimination half-life.
The table on the following page lists several commonly prescribed sleep aids along with the required minimum wait times for each.
SLEEP AID WAIT TIMES
Trade Name Generic Name Required minimum waiting time after last dose before resuming pilot or ATCS duties Ambien zolpidem* 24 hours Ambien CR zolpidem (extended release) 24 hours Edluar zolpidem (dissolves under the tongue) 36 hours Intermezzo zolpidem (for middle of the night awakening) 36 hours Lunesta eszopiclone 30 hours Restoril temazepam 72 hours Rozerem ramelteon 24 hours Sonata zaleplon 6 hours Zolpimist zolpidem (as oral spray) 48 hours
* NOTE: The different formulations of zolpidem have different half-lives, thus different wait times.
As far as noise to sleep ... I used to think I needed "white noise" ... Turns out I need it nice and quite so ear plugs is where it's at for me.
Al, we can all give suggestions about what helps us, but mainly this is just figuring out what YOU need.... Everyone is different. Try our methods or combos of our methods suggested on here to find the right one for you.
09-02-2014, 01:44 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Trunk Monkey
Posts: 562
A combat nap (anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours) BEFORE I go fly at night is what keeps me alert through the important time. Then, I follow the other advice previously stated: shower if needed, clean/new underwear to sleep in, hydrate well, cold dark room, tunnel under the covers, sleep with earplugs in, a little food (not too much), then sleep until awaking naturally. Then exercise, shower, shave, eat, live my life as "normal" then prepare for the next pre-flight nap. This works for me, and is not a perfect solution, but has served me well thus far. Oh, and try to stay healthy enough to get senior in domicile, & eventually fly during the day. 
09-02-2014, 11:39 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 204
Sleep with earplugs, use clothes pins to hold the curtains closed, stuff all light leakage with extra pillows, sofa pillows - get the room as dark as possible. Keep the room cool. I tried the white noise routine - it doesn't work when the in room air conditioner "Ker-chunks" on every 20 minutes. Good ear plugs work great.
Sleep as much as possible. It's all you can do. Unfortunately, you'll get used to flying tired.
Sleep as much as possible. It's all you can do. Unfortunately, you'll get used to flying tired.
09-03-2014, 02:17 AM
#18
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,310
Day sleeping has never been difficult for me... But time zones kill me. I woke up at 4:40am after going to sleep at 12:05am. At around 1pm I'll be dead to the world. Flying multiple international time zones effectively ruins my first two days off at home.
In the end, I try and sleep when I'm tired and eat when I'm hungry.
In the end, I try and sleep when I'm tired and eat when I'm hungry.
09-03-2014, 05:47 AM
#19
Working weekends
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
My routine when faced with this. Assume a 10PM to 0800AM "shift" for the below example. Awake entire shift
1. ONLY coffee is at beginning of shift. No other coffee
2. Lots of water all shift
3. NO naps during shift
4. At end of shift, go for a 30-45 minute walk, around hotel, treadmill, etc. Light breakfast at hotel, mostly proteins. Not too heavy on juices as you will be pee-ing due to sugars etc
5. Take a hot/warm shower. Before getting into shower, take 1MG melatonin. Use Office Depot clips to shut the curtains tight in the hotel room. Try to get a room favorable to lack of sun for your sleeping. Go Pee
6. Put room AC on slightly chilly, 65F is good. Pee
7. Read paper, E-Books, etc while in bed and you will fall asleep ASAP. Pee one more time.
my two cents
** depending on work schedule, if I see this shift coming up, the a day or two before I will stay up 24 hours (or close to it), in order to "reset my clock". Then I get on that sleep pattern.
1. ONLY coffee is at beginning of shift. No other coffee
2. Lots of water all shift
3. NO naps during shift
4. At end of shift, go for a 30-45 minute walk, around hotel, treadmill, etc. Light breakfast at hotel, mostly proteins. Not too heavy on juices as you will be pee-ing due to sugars etc
5. Take a hot/warm shower. Before getting into shower, take 1MG melatonin. Use Office Depot clips to shut the curtains tight in the hotel room. Try to get a room favorable to lack of sun for your sleeping. Go Pee
6. Put room AC on slightly chilly, 65F is good. Pee
7. Read paper, E-Books, etc while in bed and you will fall asleep ASAP. Pee one more time.
my two cents
** depending on work schedule, if I see this shift coming up, the a day or two before I will stay up 24 hours (or close to it), in order to "reset my clock". Then I get on that sleep pattern.
09-03-2014, 07:30 AM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: dinosaur wrangler
Posts: 56
Dark, cool room, close the blinds, shower before bed, etc - agreed. Those are universal, I think.
Me personally, I don't log onto Internet, watch TV, or anything. I also don't subscribe to the ear plug theory - I like to listen to a podcast series at low volume with in-ear headphones (speaker keeps me awake, headphones don't, and then double as noise suppressors once asleep). I listen to the same podcast over and over till I finish it. It usually takes me 4-5 'sleeps' to make it through the whole hour. Sleep 8 hours, take a 45 min nap prior to duty if you have a 16-24 hour layover (24 is the worst).
I don't drink coffee at all, hardly drink any caffeine. No drugs.
That's what works for me. Each person is different. You try other pilot's techniques till you find something that works for you. Good luck.
Me personally, I don't log onto Internet, watch TV, or anything. I also don't subscribe to the ear plug theory - I like to listen to a podcast series at low volume with in-ear headphones (speaker keeps me awake, headphones don't, and then double as noise suppressors once asleep). I listen to the same podcast over and over till I finish it. It usually takes me 4-5 'sleeps' to make it through the whole hour. Sleep 8 hours, take a 45 min nap prior to duty if you have a 16-24 hour layover (24 is the worst).
I don't drink coffee at all, hardly drink any caffeine. No drugs.
That's what works for me. Each person is different. You try other pilot's techniques till you find something that works for you. Good luck.
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