View Poll Results: AIRLINE PILOTS: What are we?
Blue collar laborers
107
47.35%
White collar professionals
82
36.28%
I don't know or don't care
37
16.37%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll
AIRLINE PILOTS: What are we?
09-03-2014, 10:49 AM
#31
Moderator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Good points MaxThrust. I think airline pilots are white collar workers and it stuns me that anybody here voted otherwise. You can go into various shades of gray and find some (just as an example) bush pilots who have no advanced schooling, do not keep up with advances in technology very much, act more like machine operators than anything else and do not make a lot of weighty decisions, but this is not an airline pilot. Even a lowly new-hire FO at a bottom feeder airline has years of advanced training behind them, years of college in most cases or a degree, and cannot leave the right seat without years of additional apprenticeship/study on being the captain.
I don't think any of these things are really hard core blue collar traits, although they are more commonly found among blue collar workers. Anyone can work part time, wear a uniform, and work shifts and still be a top tier professional. For example, some ER doctors work on call during only the night shift wearing a hospital uniform when on duty. Unions are more of a blue collar thing but there again, any group can unionize if there are enough of them and they wish to do so.
Originally Posted by CRM114
Part-time, uniform-wearing, shift-working, hourly wage employees with work hours governed by a collective bargaining agreement. Sure it's easy manual labor, but manual labor nonetheless. Decidedly blue collar...
09-03-2014, 04:05 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 1559
Posts: 1,533
Originally Posted by MaxThrustPower
White-collar professional without a doubt.
A professional is a member of a profession. And a profession is a job that requires special education, training, or skill. Ladies and gentlemen, as pilots we require all three of those qualities. A professional career-field also requires on-going study to stay proficient in the latest laws, rules, legalities, technological developments, and procedural changes as a result of these things.
A professional is a member of a profession. And a profession is a job that requires special education, training, or skill. Ladies and gentlemen, as pilots we require all three of those qualities. A professional career-field also requires on-going study to stay proficient in the latest laws, rules, legalities, technological developments, and procedural changes as a result of these things.
09-03-2014, 07:18 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 104
What is a Professional?
Originally Posted by MX727
Same can be said of a welder and an electrician.
Yes, you could make an argument that skilled trades such as Plumbers, Electricians, Welders, even Dental Assistants are “professionals” since they do require some limited degree of specialized training, may be subject to professional licensing by a government agency, and require some level of continuing education or training.
The difference in such skilled trades and a true profession can be a little fuzzy, yet there are distinct differences. There is an excellent article on the concept of the “professional” in Wikipedia and I’ve included a link below. Some of my definitions are based on that article if you care to read for further information.
One huge difference in the specialized training, education, and skill required of a trade versus a professional simply has to do with the depth, intensity, and length of study required to master it before rising to the highest levels of qualification. A profession requires mastery of more abstract knowledge. Someone cannot say they want to be a Captain on a widebody airplane filled with hundreds of passengers, enroll in a one year course, and get hired to do that job! It just doesn’t happen. If I want to be an electrician, I could take a technical training program and enter most trades as a journeyman apprentice in less than a year, and work my way up to the Master level of licensing within a few years. In the same amount of time it would take to earn a Master license in a trade, I’d be fortunate to accrue enough experience to just get hired at a major airline, much less fly as a Captain on the largest airplanes.
That specialized training and education doesn’t just apply to our aeronautical knowledge; it’s also our formal education. Most airlines today not only expect its’ pilots to have this specialized knowledge; it’s typical for airline pilots to also have at least a four-year degree. (In my case, I have a Master’s degree also and I know others who have not only that but more advanced degrees.) I think it would be uncommon to find many tradesmen with a college degree, much less graduate level degrees.
Plumbing or electrical work requires some level of staying informed about industry changes, technology, or regulation. But for the most part, as my earlier analogy about shoveling dirt 100 years ago, plumbing just doesn’t change that much over time. Nor do the basic principles of electrical wiring. In my 30 years in aviation, I’ve seen constant changes and evolution. The airplanes we fly today are much more complex. Technology has made aviation safer but also much more complicate. TCAS, GPWS, and GPS are three major safety-related changes that come to mind. We’ve learned a lot more about topics such as thunderstorms, windshear, and icing conditions that were previously a greater threat to a safe flight. As society has changed, we have had to adapt and grow with it whether we’re talking about security issues since 9/11 or how to use the latest computer technology to prepare for our flight. Plumbers and electricians are still using essentially the same tools they were 75 years ago, the last time I checked.
In the Wikipedia article I mentioned, one key area pilots and other professionals differ from tradesmen is in our level of autonomy we exercise in our work. “Professions tend to be autonomous, which means they have a high degree of control of their own affairs: "professionals are autonomous insofar as they can make independent judgments about their work" This usually means "the freedom to exercise their professional judgment.” Tradesmen normally are trained to do a particular task in a particular way. They do not have the need or ability to adapt to conditions and apply a superior level of knowledge or skill as appropriate to handle a situation. As a pilot, I have a vast amount of autonomy which I may exercise on a flight in the interest of the safety of my airplane, passengers, and crew. I continuously evaluate the situation and make decisions as needed to best handle the circumstances. It is the same with other true professionals such as doctors.
Another area which make us different is in status and prestige. Regardless of the attitude of some pilots who feel like glorified bus drivers, surveys continue to show that airline pilots are one of the most respected career fields. “Professions enjoy a high social status, regard and esteem conferred upon them by society. This high esteem arises primarily from the higher social function of their work, which is regarded as vital to society as a whole and thus of having a special and valuable nature. All professions involve technical, specialized and highly skilled work often referred to as "professional expertise." Training for this work involves obtaining degrees and professional qualifications (see Licensure) without which entry to the profession is barred (occupational closure). Training also requires regular updating of skills through continuing education.”
Finally, a tradesman is someone who uses his specialized training, education, and/or skill to perform manual labor which creates or repairs a physical object. The product of their labor is a physical creation. For example, an architect is a professional because he designs a building using his extensive education and training. A construction worker is a tradesman, because he takes the plans and creates the physical building, by using a more limited set of skills and training to implement the plans. He doesn’t make changes to the plans himself; he just does what the architect said to do. The same can be true for an electrician. He follows rules and procedures dictated by state and local building codes, as well as the instructions of his customer, to implement an electrical plan. What we produce as pilots is complex and esoteric – a safe flight to move a large amount of people and/or cargo from one place to another.
I agree that as pilots, we appear to share some characteristics of tradesmen on a summary glance, but a more thoughtful review shows we are decidedly different. We are true professionals and certainly in the realm of the white-collar worker.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession
09-03-2014, 07:23 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 104
List of Professions
Not that I believe everything on Wikipedia, but it can be a handy source of quick information that generally has been subject to at least several levels of scrutiny and editing.
See: "Aircraft Pilots" below ...
================================================== =
Profession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A list of professions, that commonly have specialized educational training and legal qualification, of formal or mandatory study, has strict oversight or is self-regulating, and usually requires a person actively engaged to be a member of a professional body.
Academia
Cultural
Nursing
Transport
Science
See: "Aircraft Pilots" below ...
================================================== =
Profession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A list of professions, that commonly have specialized educational training and legal qualification, of formal or mandatory study, has strict oversight or is self-regulating, and usually requires a person actively engaged to be a member of a professional body.
Academia
Cultural
Nursing
- Physicians (public service)
- Dentists
- Midwives
- Nurses
- Optometrists
- Paramedics
- Pathologists
- Surgeons
- Pharmacists
- Physiotherapists
- Psychologists
- Veterinarians
- Accountants
- Actuaries
- Agriculturists
- Architects
- Economists
- Engineers
- Interpreters
- Journalists
- Language professionals
- Lawyers and advocates
- Librarians
- Property appraiser and valuer
- Solicitors
- Statisticians
- Surveyors
- Urban planners
Transport
Science
09-03-2014, 11:59 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: B777; Left Seat.
Posts: 253
09-04-2014, 04:28 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by MaxThrustPower
True, MX727. To a limited degree. But are we here to define and defend the definition of other career paths or our own? I seem to remember the name of this forum being “Airline Pilot Central”, not “Electricians Central.”
Yes, you could make an argument that skilled trades such as Plumbers, Electricians, Welders, even Dental Assistants are “professionals” since they do require some limited degree of specialized training, may be subject to professional licensing by a government agency, and require some level of continuing education or training.
The difference in such skilled trades and a true profession can be a little fuzzy, yet there are distinct differences. There is an excellent article on the concept of the “professional” in Wikipedia and I’ve included a link below. Some of my definitions are based on that article if you care to read for further information.
One huge difference in the specialized training, education, and skill required of a trade versus a professional simply has to do with the depth, intensity, and length of study required to master it before rising to the highest levels of qualification. A profession requires mastery of more abstract knowledge. Someone cannot say they want to be a Captain on a widebody airplane filled with hundreds of passengers, enroll in a one year course, and get hired to do that job! It just doesn’t happen. If I want to be an electrician, I could take a technical training program and enter most trades as a journeyman apprentice in less than a year, and work my way up to the Master level of licensing within a few years. In the same amount of time it would take to earn a Master license in a trade, I’d be fortunate to accrue enough experience to just get hired at a major airline, much less fly as a Captain on the largest airplanes.
That specialized training and education doesn’t just apply to our aeronautical knowledge; it’s also our formal education. Most airlines today not only expect its’ pilots to have this specialized knowledge; it’s typical for airline pilots to also have at least a four-year degree. (In my case, I have a Master’s degree also and I know others who have not only that but more advanced degrees.) I think it would be uncommon to find many tradesmen with a college degree, much less graduate level degrees.
Plumbing or electrical work requires some level of staying informed about industry changes, technology, or regulation. But for the most part, as my earlier analogy about shoveling dirt 100 years ago, plumbing just doesn’t change that much over time. Nor do the basic principles of electrical wiring. In my 30 years in aviation, I’ve seen constant changes and evolution. The airplanes we fly today are much more complex. Technology has made aviation safer but also much more complicate. TCAS, GPWS, and GPS are three major safety-related changes that come to mind. We’ve learned a lot more about topics such as thunderstorms, windshear, and icing conditions that were previously a greater threat to a safe flight. As society has changed, we have had to adapt and grow with it whether we’re talking about security issues since 9/11 or how to use the latest computer technology to prepare for our flight. Plumbers and electricians are still using essentially the same tools they were 75 years ago, the last time I checked.
In the Wikipedia article I mentioned, one key area pilots and other professionals differ from tradesmen is in our level of autonomy we exercise in our work. “Professions tend to be autonomous, which means they have a high degree of control of their own affairs: "professionals are autonomous insofar as they can make independent judgments about their work" This usually means "the freedom to exercise their professional judgment.” Tradesmen normally are trained to do a particular task in a particular way. They do not have the need or ability to adapt to conditions and apply a superior level of knowledge or skill as appropriate to handle a situation. As a pilot, I have a vast amount of autonomy which I may exercise on a flight in the interest of the safety of my airplane, passengers, and crew. I continuously evaluate the situation and make decisions as needed to best handle the circumstances. It is the same with other true professionals such as doctors.
Another area which make us different is in status and prestige. Regardless of the attitude of some pilots who feel like glorified bus drivers, surveys continue to show that airline pilots are one of the most respected career fields. “Professions enjoy a high social status, regard and esteem conferred upon them by society. This high esteem arises primarily from the higher social function of their work, which is regarded as vital to society as a whole and thus of having a special and valuable nature. All professions involve technical, specialized and highly skilled work often referred to as "professional expertise." Training for this work involves obtaining degrees and professional qualifications (see Licensure) without which entry to the profession is barred (occupational closure). Training also requires regular updating of skills through continuing education.”
Finally, a tradesman is someone who uses his specialized training, education, and/or skill to perform manual labor which creates or repairs a physical object. The product of their labor is a physical creation. For example, an architect is a professional because he designs a building using his extensive education and training. A construction worker is a tradesman, because he takes the plans and creates the physical building, by using a more limited set of skills and training to implement the plans. He doesn’t make changes to the plans himself; he just does what the architect said to do. The same can be true for an electrician. He follows rules and procedures dictated by state and local building codes, as well as the instructions of his customer, to implement an electrical plan. What we produce as pilots is complex and esoteric – a safe flight to move a large amount of people and/or cargo from one place to another.
I agree that as pilots, we appear to share some characteristics of tradesmen on a summary glance, but a more thoughtful review shows we are decidedly different. We are true professionals and certainly in the realm of the white-collar worker.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession[/SIZE]
Yes, you could make an argument that skilled trades such as Plumbers, Electricians, Welders, even Dental Assistants are “professionals” since they do require some limited degree of specialized training, may be subject to professional licensing by a government agency, and require some level of continuing education or training.
The difference in such skilled trades and a true profession can be a little fuzzy, yet there are distinct differences. There is an excellent article on the concept of the “professional” in Wikipedia and I’ve included a link below. Some of my definitions are based on that article if you care to read for further information.
One huge difference in the specialized training, education, and skill required of a trade versus a professional simply has to do with the depth, intensity, and length of study required to master it before rising to the highest levels of qualification. A profession requires mastery of more abstract knowledge. Someone cannot say they want to be a Captain on a widebody airplane filled with hundreds of passengers, enroll in a one year course, and get hired to do that job! It just doesn’t happen. If I want to be an electrician, I could take a technical training program and enter most trades as a journeyman apprentice in less than a year, and work my way up to the Master level of licensing within a few years. In the same amount of time it would take to earn a Master license in a trade, I’d be fortunate to accrue enough experience to just get hired at a major airline, much less fly as a Captain on the largest airplanes.
That specialized training and education doesn’t just apply to our aeronautical knowledge; it’s also our formal education. Most airlines today not only expect its’ pilots to have this specialized knowledge; it’s typical for airline pilots to also have at least a four-year degree. (In my case, I have a Master’s degree also and I know others who have not only that but more advanced degrees.) I think it would be uncommon to find many tradesmen with a college degree, much less graduate level degrees.
Plumbing or electrical work requires some level of staying informed about industry changes, technology, or regulation. But for the most part, as my earlier analogy about shoveling dirt 100 years ago, plumbing just doesn’t change that much over time. Nor do the basic principles of electrical wiring. In my 30 years in aviation, I’ve seen constant changes and evolution. The airplanes we fly today are much more complex. Technology has made aviation safer but also much more complicate. TCAS, GPWS, and GPS are three major safety-related changes that come to mind. We’ve learned a lot more about topics such as thunderstorms, windshear, and icing conditions that were previously a greater threat to a safe flight. As society has changed, we have had to adapt and grow with it whether we’re talking about security issues since 9/11 or how to use the latest computer technology to prepare for our flight. Plumbers and electricians are still using essentially the same tools they were 75 years ago, the last time I checked.
In the Wikipedia article I mentioned, one key area pilots and other professionals differ from tradesmen is in our level of autonomy we exercise in our work. “Professions tend to be autonomous, which means they have a high degree of control of their own affairs: "professionals are autonomous insofar as they can make independent judgments about their work" This usually means "the freedom to exercise their professional judgment.” Tradesmen normally are trained to do a particular task in a particular way. They do not have the need or ability to adapt to conditions and apply a superior level of knowledge or skill as appropriate to handle a situation. As a pilot, I have a vast amount of autonomy which I may exercise on a flight in the interest of the safety of my airplane, passengers, and crew. I continuously evaluate the situation and make decisions as needed to best handle the circumstances. It is the same with other true professionals such as doctors.
Another area which make us different is in status and prestige. Regardless of the attitude of some pilots who feel like glorified bus drivers, surveys continue to show that airline pilots are one of the most respected career fields. “Professions enjoy a high social status, regard and esteem conferred upon them by society. This high esteem arises primarily from the higher social function of their work, which is regarded as vital to society as a whole and thus of having a special and valuable nature. All professions involve technical, specialized and highly skilled work often referred to as "professional expertise." Training for this work involves obtaining degrees and professional qualifications (see Licensure) without which entry to the profession is barred (occupational closure). Training also requires regular updating of skills through continuing education.”
Finally, a tradesman is someone who uses his specialized training, education, and/or skill to perform manual labor which creates or repairs a physical object. The product of their labor is a physical creation. For example, an architect is a professional because he designs a building using his extensive education and training. A construction worker is a tradesman, because he takes the plans and creates the physical building, by using a more limited set of skills and training to implement the plans. He doesn’t make changes to the plans himself; he just does what the architect said to do. The same can be true for an electrician. He follows rules and procedures dictated by state and local building codes, as well as the instructions of his customer, to implement an electrical plan. What we produce as pilots is complex and esoteric – a safe flight to move a large amount of people and/or cargo from one place to another.
I agree that as pilots, we appear to share some characteristics of tradesmen on a summary glance, but a more thoughtful review shows we are decidedly different. We are true professionals and certainly in the realm of the white-collar worker.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession[/SIZE]
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