View Poll Results: AIRLINE PILOTS: What are we?
Blue collar laborers
107
47.35%
White collar professionals
82
36.28%
I don't know or don't care
37
16.37%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll
AIRLINE PILOTS: What are we?
09-04-2014, 07:13 AM
#41
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Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
The point can be made that one can fly an airliner without obtaining a formal college degree, yet the majority of major & legacy airline pilots indeed have a college degree. I would venture a guess that wider society drives this phenomenon and it is NOT driven by the demands of the work or the contents of formal education. Society wants airline pilots to be educated people. It feels uncomfortable with an uneducated person performing the role, and wants airline pilots to be persons who embody their values. This may be what confuses a lot of people about the subject. But it is perfectly valid to say that even though the work does not require a college degree, airline pilots must be educated in order to be judged acceptable by society and therefore are white collar workers by choice.
09-04-2014, 07:51 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by azoomietheist
Pilots are blue collar workers who identify with and vote like white collar workers (against their own economic interests).
09-04-2014, 09:56 AM
#44
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Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by paintyourjet
We are white collar. Cut that hair and shave those whiskers. Stand up tall and be proud of yourself. Stand together and demand to get paid what we are worth!
Clean shaven; Check
Standing tall and proud; Check
Standing together and just as demanding to paid what we're worth as any pilot thinking that we're White Collar; Check
Blue Collar Airline Pilot; Check
09-04-2014, 10:48 AM
#45
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Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Cubdriver
Society wants airline pilots to be educated people. It feels uncomfortable with an uneducated person performing the role, and wants airline pilots to be persons who embody their values. This may be what confuses a lot of people about the subject. But it is perfectly valid to say that even though the work does not require a college degree, airline pilots must be educated in order to be judged acceptable by society and therefore are white collar workers by choice.
09-04-2014, 10:59 AM
#46
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed
... The only thing society cares about is cheap tickets. Most of them don't even know that they're not on a mainline jet just because the paint scheme on the RJ is the same. How could one expect them to know or care if pilots have a higher education? The truth is that they couldn't care less if we had degrees or not.
09-04-2014, 11:24 AM
#47
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Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Window Seat
Posts: 1,430
A lot of acquaintances I have at "legacy" airlines, who do not have degrees (like myself), often remark at what a bizzare HR culture exists around them. For one, everyone takes themselves way too seriously. Second, as one of them remarked the other day, "I'm qualified to Captain a 767 across the Pacific, but I'd never be hired as a first officer today".
09-04-2014, 11:42 AM
#48
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 1,530
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed
How could one expect them to know or care if pilots have a higher education? The truth is that they couldn't care less if we had degrees or not.
09-07-2014, 08:20 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 104
While I believe that airline pilots are white collar and professionals, I understand the rationale behind those who choose 'blue collar'. However, I still disagree.
I think that which viewpoint is chosen might greatly depend on the current position a professional pilot holds, the duties he performs, and his general background. For example, I'm a former military officer and I think more of that group identify as professional and white-collar. I'm a college graduate and I think more of that group identify as professional and white-collar. I work for one of the largest part 121 passenger airlines, and I think more of that group identify as professional and white-collar. I feel some degree of empowerment in my job and admiration from my passengers or the public in general when they learn I fly commercially. I don't get my hands dirty or have to do anything I consider "manual labor". The vast majority of my job is done with my brain, not with my hands.
Who knows who answered this survey in reality? Perhaps some who are not even yet in a career position, or who haven't reached any level of prestige, or who might still have manual labor involved in their jobs such as loading or unloading cargo, cleaning the airplane, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with this; we're all at different positions in our career track. I just think it's sad that more pilots don't feel they deserve to be called white-collar professionals. I just don't think that the majority of us are even close to what most people characterize as a blue collar job.
And it does matter. If you want to think and act like a blue collar worker, you'll be paid and treated like one. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy. And I don't want the aviation career to sink to even lower levels than we've reached today, not only for myself but for those who follow in our footsteps.
I think that which viewpoint is chosen might greatly depend on the current position a professional pilot holds, the duties he performs, and his general background. For example, I'm a former military officer and I think more of that group identify as professional and white-collar. I'm a college graduate and I think more of that group identify as professional and white-collar. I work for one of the largest part 121 passenger airlines, and I think more of that group identify as professional and white-collar. I feel some degree of empowerment in my job and admiration from my passengers or the public in general when they learn I fly commercially. I don't get my hands dirty or have to do anything I consider "manual labor". The vast majority of my job is done with my brain, not with my hands.
Who knows who answered this survey in reality? Perhaps some who are not even yet in a career position, or who haven't reached any level of prestige, or who might still have manual labor involved in their jobs such as loading or unloading cargo, cleaning the airplane, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with this; we're all at different positions in our career track. I just think it's sad that more pilots don't feel they deserve to be called white-collar professionals. I just don't think that the majority of us are even close to what most people characterize as a blue collar job.
And it does matter. If you want to think and act like a blue collar worker, you'll be paid and treated like one. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy. And I don't want the aviation career to sink to even lower levels than we've reached today, not only for myself but for those who follow in our footsteps.
09-07-2014, 08:30 AM
#50
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Originally Posted by MaxThrustPower
I work for one of the largest part 121 passenger airlines, and I think more of that group identify as professional and white-collar. I feel some degree of empowerment in my job and admiration from my passengers or the public in general when they learn I fly commercially. I don't get my hands dirty or have to do anything I consider "manual labor".
Oh brother ... I'm kind of surprised this self admiring "bus" driver would lower himself to reading the Cargo Forum. At least he feels good about himself when he looks in the mirror with his uniform on
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