Originally Posted by flyphisher

Packrat is 108% spot on. And all his facts from what I see are spot on.

There are no guarantees.....in anything. And none of us will know if we made the right decision(s) until retirement. Be it FedEx, UPS, Delta. There is zero guarantee that any of these companies will exist in 30 years. Zero. Do you think in the 40-50-60-and 70's that PanAm, TWA, Eastern, Braniff....would have ever thought their companies would be completely obliterated? Think about that. Think about it long and hard.

You fight for what you can hope to change. You fight tooth and nail. And then you fight more.

But to EXPECT.....anything....is a Fools payday. Companies DO NOT exist for the benefit of the pilot group.

I too was impacted at UPS by the age 65 rule. 80% of the pilot list across all airlines were affected. At UPS we had the added bonus of guys that roles back to the backseat at age 60, and waited and hoped they'd get a window seat again. Which they did. I and many others lost the captain seat.

Was I bitter? Nope. Didn't like it but I understood. It's hard for ICAO to allow what we wouldn't allow. Yet international pilots could fly in our airspace. The USA didn't have a leg to stand on. Was the intent to make us work until we drop dead therefore not having to pay retirement? Yep. Probably did at some point.

You fight and hopefully prevail. Same with 117 cargo cutout. We all know why we were carved out. Money. Corruption. By two major companies mostly. It's blatant. But what are you going to do? If it eats you up so bad, then You gotta get out of the industry. Or go to a pax carrier. It's that simple. Accept it an live longer.

Turning this into an old vs young with phrases of get out of my seat, three ex wives, etc....is beyond the pale of ridiculous.

Some/many pilots need a reality check.

Originally Posted by Mark2792

-Nothing brings disunity during CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS like a good 'ol fashioned OLD GUY versus YOUNG GUY thread.


Think about it....

Originally Posted by NoHaz

Lets add a few items to your version of the history lesson.


2. What would I have done in their shoes? Here's what I would have done in our management shoes. Not let over 60's go to the 10 and 727 backseat without a bid to wait for the rule change. The seats were overmanned already. Once the rule did change not cancel the entire system bid, instead tell over 60's congrats as seats become available you can bid them. Your age group manipulated the whole process to keep a group on the property and to allow them to rebid any Capt seat they wanted immediately. Huge disruption cost for many and excess bid costs for the company, but not your problem.

Originally Posted by fdx727pilot

I have every intention of retiring the year I turn 60, but reading threads like this make me want to stay until 65, just to fulfill all those expectations of pipe, manny, and company.

Originally Posted by fdx727pilot

I have every intention of retiring the year I turn 60, but reading threads like this make me want to stay until 65, just to fulfill all those expectations of pipe, manny, and company.

Originally Posted by HIFLYR

I still cannot believe that many do not do this simple thing. While not a tiger guy I will say in general they were laid back and the most fun to fly with. They also had many traditions that are worth keeping and the above is one of them, along with looking out for your crew first.

Originally Posted by AerisArmis

Generally I agree with you but they have good and bad just like any other group within the pilot list. PC was a Tiger, Klepto was a Tiger and there are some other notorious ones as well.