Transport HKG-CAN
07-07-2015, 07:52 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 54
Scheduled for ground transport right now HKG to CAN with Parklane. I am a SIBA pilot. I referenced the 2 hour ground transport provision in the contract, and that I am not an FDA pilot. I was told by D.O. that since I bid SIBA I knew what types of trips/transport were possible. Thinking about grieving it.
07-07-2015, 08:09 PM
#13
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
SIBA is NOT an FDA.
The types of trips you should see on a SIBA line are those which are legal per the CBA. E-mail your PSIT guys to find out why they allowed GT in the pairing.
.
The types of trips you should see on a SIBA line are those which are legal per the CBA. E-mail your PSIT guys to find out why they allowed GT in the pairing.
.
07-07-2015, 08:35 PM
#14
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: "Part of the problem." : JL
Posts: 1,053
Jesus our guys are cheap.
While Tony's post does not technically contain any incorrect information...
I would NOT deal with any of that hassle after traveling 13 hours to get to HK.
A regular taxi from HKG to Hung Hom is about 240 HKD. That's 40 bucks. And you aren't expected to tip him either.
Just take a damn cab to the Hung Hom train station (should you chose to go that route). But in all honestly, I would take Parklane as scheduled.
While Tony's post does not technically contain any incorrect information...
I would NOT deal with any of that hassle after traveling 13 hours to get to HK.
A regular taxi from HKG to Hung Hom is about 240 HKD. That's 40 bucks. And you aren't expected to tip him either.
Just take a damn cab to the Hung Hom train station (should you chose to go that route). But in all honestly, I would take Parklane as scheduled.
07-07-2015, 08:53 PM
#15
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by skypine27
Jesus our guys are cheap.
While Tony's post does not technically contain any incorrect information...
I would NOT deal with any of that hassle after traveling 13 hours to get to HK.
A regular taxi from HKG to Hung Hom is about 240 HKD. That's 40 bucks. And you aren't expected to tip him either.
Just take a damn cab to the Hung Hom train station (should you chose to go that route). But in all honestly, I would take Parklane as scheduled.
If the SIBA pilot just got to HKG, I imagine there's a hotel stay involved before the GT to CAN, so no need to take a taxi from the airport to Hung Hom.
I also don't know if Miso is on a SIBA pairing that has a HKG-CAN GT in the bidpack pairing, or if it's a trip revision -- he didn't say.
If I'm a HKG (FDA) pilot, the GT gets me a bank, and I use that to deviate.
If I'm a MEM pilot on a SIBA trip, there should be no HKG-CAN GT -- that would be a violation of the CBA. The Duty Officer should be able to intervene.
I realize some people don't mind the GT. Some people ride motorcycles in Hong Kong, too. Not me, thank you. We worked hard to get those out of the bid pack for good reasons.
.
07-08-2015, 12:53 AM
#16
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by Miso
Scheduled for ground transport right now HKG to CAN with Parklane. I am a SIBA pilot. I referenced the 2 hour ground transport provision in the contract, and that I am not an FDA pilot. I was told by D.O. that since I bid SIBA I knew what types of trips/transport were possible. Thinking about grieving it.
I believe that you are correct; an FDA pilot is contractually obligated and a SIBA pilot isnt. Whatever you do, I would grieve it. The DO is wrong, IMO. You are not an FDA pilot, period. Good on you for knowing the difference.
Just another thing we gave up with the FDA LOA.
07-08-2015, 01:20 AM
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 54
To clarify. I know that SIBA is not an FDA. I bid SIBA for six years when Europe had good trips.
Regardless, I am a Memphis based pilot. I have not signed the FDA LOA. I bid SIBA for a three month period only. They brought me over to HKG for a hotel standby for two weeks. This morning after five days of standby I had a notification that I needed to be downstairs for GT to CAN in an hour, so I called scheduling. I referenced the contract. They sent me to the duty officer. I referenced the two hour provision in the contract again, and then went to the LOA which waives the GT provision from the contract. Then I said, "I didn't sign the LOA, I am not receiving any of the benefits associated with the LOA, why are selective portions of the LOA being applied to me?" The duty officer indicated that I knew what kind of flying would be possible with SIBA when I bid it. I agreed, but this is not flying, it is GT. He said he had the authority to change it, but that he disagreed, and to talk to Rose at the Union if I wanted to pursue it. To be clear, we spoke at length, and the conversation was not heated. I simply said that I wanted to be legal.
Rhetorically, if I have hotel standby in Memphis, can they call and put me in a limo for a three and a half hours to position to Nashville?...
I am in CAN now, so they just did.
Also, the ride dangerous... I remember a ride in a bus in Bolivia through the Andes sitting next to a womean holding a chicken that was worse, but just barely.
Regardless, I am a Memphis based pilot. I have not signed the FDA LOA. I bid SIBA for a three month period only. They brought me over to HKG for a hotel standby for two weeks. This morning after five days of standby I had a notification that I needed to be downstairs for GT to CAN in an hour, so I called scheduling. I referenced the contract. They sent me to the duty officer. I referenced the two hour provision in the contract again, and then went to the LOA which waives the GT provision from the contract. Then I said, "I didn't sign the LOA, I am not receiving any of the benefits associated with the LOA, why are selective portions of the LOA being applied to me?" The duty officer indicated that I knew what kind of flying would be possible with SIBA when I bid it. I agreed, but this is not flying, it is GT. He said he had the authority to change it, but that he disagreed, and to talk to Rose at the Union if I wanted to pursue it. To be clear, we spoke at length, and the conversation was not heated. I simply said that I wanted to be legal.
Rhetorically, if I have hotel standby in Memphis, can they call and put me in a limo for a three and a half hours to position to Nashville?...
I am in CAN now, so they just did.
Also, the ride dangerous... I remember a ride in a bus in Bolivia through the Andes sitting next to a womean holding a chicken that was worse, but just barely.
07-08-2015, 07:38 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by Miso
To clarify. I know that SIBA is not an FDA. I bid SIBA for six years when Europe had good trips.
Rhetorically, if I have hotel standby in Memphis, can they call and put me in a limo for a three and a half hours to position to Nashville?...
I am in CAN now, so they just did.
Also, the ride dangerous... I remember a ride in a bus in Bolivia through the Andes sitting next to a womean holding a chicken that was worse, but just barely.
Rhetorically, if I have hotel standby in Memphis, can they call and put me in a limo for a three and a half hours to position to Nashville?...
I am in CAN now, so they just did.
Also, the ride dangerous... I remember a ride in a bus in Bolivia through the Andes sitting next to a womean holding a chicken that was worse, but just barely.
If you have been assigned an illegal duty period (GT) then file a Grievance.
Don't ask for help here, you won't get it.
07-08-2015, 07:53 AM
#19
Administrator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: C-172
Posts: 8,024
Originally Posted by TonyC
In my opinion, Parklane is simply dangerous. It's simple, but the most dangerous mode of travel. Even if the driver is not falling asleep, the other drivers he has to contend with are out to kill you. Absolutely DO NOT use Parklane after dark, and only as a last resort during daylight hours.
I agree that the Hong Kong to Guangzhou train is the safest bet, but it takes a little effort from the Hong Kong Airport. Here's what I would do:
Airport Express towards the city, get off at Tsing Yi.
Transfer to Tung Chung Line (Gold) headed towards Hong Kong.
2nd stop Nam Cheong.
Transfer to West Rail Line (Purple) headed towards Hung Hom.
3rd stop (end of line) Hung Hom.
Take Hong Kong to Guangzhou train to Guangzhou Railway East Station.
China Hotel: Take Line 1 (Yellow) to Gongyuanqian Station.
Transfer to Line 2 (Light Blue) headed towards Jiahewanggang.
2nd Stop is Yuexiu Park (sounds like "jay-jew")
Garden Hotel: Take Line 1 (Yellow) to Yangi (3rd stop).
Transfer to Line 5 (Red) headed towards Jiaokou.
3rd stop is Taojin.
Having an Octopus Card for Hong Kong and a Yang Cheng Tong card for Guangzhou offers both convenience and discounts. Get the Octopus Card in the Hong Kong airport, and the Yang Cheng Tong card in the Guangzhou metro station.
Maps and other info for all 3 systems are readily available on the internet, all signage is dual language -- no trouble finding English signs, and the systems are safe, clean, and reliable.
.
I agree that the Hong Kong to Guangzhou train is the safest bet, but it takes a little effort from the Hong Kong Airport. Here's what I would do:
Airport Express towards the city, get off at Tsing Yi.
Transfer to Tung Chung Line (Gold) headed towards Hong Kong.
2nd stop Nam Cheong.
Transfer to West Rail Line (Purple) headed towards Hung Hom.
3rd stop (end of line) Hung Hom.
Take Hong Kong to Guangzhou train to Guangzhou Railway East Station.
China Hotel: Take Line 1 (Yellow) to Gongyuanqian Station.
Transfer to Line 2 (Light Blue) headed towards Jiahewanggang.
2nd Stop is Yuexiu Park (sounds like "jay-jew")
Garden Hotel: Take Line 1 (Yellow) to Yangi (3rd stop).
Transfer to Line 5 (Red) headed towards Jiaokou.
3rd stop is Taojin.
Having an Octopus Card for Hong Kong and a Yang Cheng Tong card for Guangzhou offers both convenience and discounts. Get the Octopus Card in the Hong Kong airport, and the Yang Cheng Tong card in the Guangzhou metro station.
Maps and other info for all 3 systems are readily available on the internet, all signage is dual language -- no trouble finding English signs, and the systems are safe, clean, and reliable.
.
Originally Posted by TonyC
Are you an FDA pilot?
§J.2. of the FDA LOA:
Deadhead by Surface Transportation Other Than Train
Unless you're an FDA pilot or the SIG loses their minds, you shouldn't have to worry about riding in a car from HKG to CAN.
.
§J.2. of the FDA LOA:
Deadhead by Surface Transportation Other Than Train
a. With respect to ground transportation between HKG-CAN and
CGN-FRA, Section 8.B.1.b. of the Basic Agreement is waived.
b. With respect to ground transportation in the HKG bid period
package(s) between HKG-CAN, the following additional
limitations apply:
(§8.B.1.b. says, "Surface transportation greater than 2 hours must be approved by the SIG.")CGN-FRA, Section 8.B.1.b. of the Basic Agreement is waived.
b. With respect to ground transportation in the HKG bid period
package(s) between HKG-CAN, the following additional
limitations apply:
i. Pick-ups for scheduled ground transportation deadheads
must be prior to 2000 LBT.
ii. There will be no ground transportation scheduled in the bid
period package that occurs between the hours of 2331 to
0459 LBT.
must be prior to 2000 LBT.
ii. There will be no ground transportation scheduled in the bid
period package that occurs between the hours of 2331 to
0459 LBT.
Unless you're an FDA pilot or the SIG loses their minds, you shouldn't have to worry about riding in a car from HKG to CAN.
.
Originally Posted by Miso
I am not an FDA pilot. However, I am a SIBA pilot, and have on a prior SIBA bid been scheduled to travel from CAN to HKG via car....Also, I spoke with a scheduler after I was assigned a trip last month with 440 hrs scheduled TAFB. I referenced Contract Section 12.D.2.h. at which point he said that these trips were being built on an ad hoc basis, and that the computer software limitations used to build the bid pack schedules was not necessarily being applied here. Several days later scheduling called me back indicating that what I had complained about was in fact not a legal pairing, and revised it. So I am very skeptical when a scheduler comes right out and says that they are not using the scheduling software to build trips. I think that most anything to move the freight is in the realm of possibility, particularly in HKG currently.
Originally Posted by Miso
Scheduled for ground transport right now HKG to CAN with Parklane. I am a SIBA pilot. I referenced the 2 hour ground transport provision in the contract, and that I am not an FDA pilot. I was told by D.O. that since I bid SIBA I knew what types of trips/transport were possible. Thinking about grieving it.
Originally Posted by TonyC
SIBA is NOT an FDA.
The types of trips you should see on a SIBA line are those which are legal per the CBA. E-mail your PSIT guys to find out why they allowed GT in the pairing.
.
The types of trips you should see on a SIBA line are those which are legal per the CBA. E-mail your PSIT guys to find out why they allowed GT in the pairing.
.
Originally Posted by skypine27
Jesus our guys are cheap.
While Tony's post does not technically contain any incorrect information...
I would NOT deal with any of that hassle after traveling 13 hours to get to HK.
A regular taxi from HKG to Hung Hom is about 240 HKD. That's 40 bucks. And you aren't expected to tip him either.
Just take a damn cab to the Hung Hom train station (should you chose to go that route). But in all honestly, I would take Parklane as scheduled.
While Tony's post does not technically contain any incorrect information...
I would NOT deal with any of that hassle after traveling 13 hours to get to HK.
A regular taxi from HKG to Hung Hom is about 240 HKD. That's 40 bucks. And you aren't expected to tip him either.
Just take a damn cab to the Hung Hom train station (should you chose to go that route). But in all honestly, I would take Parklane as scheduled.
Originally Posted by TonyC
Different guys asking different questions in different contexts ... it's hard to come up with an answer that best suits them all.
If the SIBA pilot just got to HKG, I imagine there's a hotel stay involved before the GT to CAN, so no need to take a taxi from the airport to Hung Hom.
I also don't know if Miso is on a SIBA pairing that has a HKG-CAN GT in the bidpack pairing, or if it's a trip revision -- he didn't say.
If I'm a HKG (FDA) pilot, the GT gets me a bank, and I use that to deviate.
If I'm a MEM pilot on a SIBA trip, there should be no HKG-CAN GT -- that would be a violation of the CBA. The Duty Officer should be able to intervene.
I realize some people don't mind the GT. Some people ride motorcycles in Hong Kong, too. Not me, thank you. We worked hard to get those out of the bid pack for good reasons.
.
If the SIBA pilot just got to HKG, I imagine there's a hotel stay involved before the GT to CAN, so no need to take a taxi from the airport to Hung Hom.
I also don't know if Miso is on a SIBA pairing that has a HKG-CAN GT in the bidpack pairing, or if it's a trip revision -- he didn't say.
If I'm a HKG (FDA) pilot, the GT gets me a bank, and I use that to deviate.
If I'm a MEM pilot on a SIBA trip, there should be no HKG-CAN GT -- that would be a violation of the CBA. The Duty Officer should be able to intervene.
I realize some people don't mind the GT. Some people ride motorcycles in Hong Kong, too. Not me, thank you. We worked hard to get those out of the bid pack for good reasons.
.
Originally Posted by iarapilot
I believe that you are correct; an FDA pilot is contractually obligated and a SIBA pilot isnt. Whatever you do, I would grieve it. The DO is wrong, IMO. You are not an FDA pilot, period. Good on you for knowing the difference.
Just another thing we gave up with the FDA LOA.
Just another thing we gave up with the FDA LOA.
Originally Posted by Miso
To clarify. I know that SIBA is not an FDA. I bid SIBA for six years when Europe had good trips.
Regardless, I am a Memphis based pilot. I have not signed the FDA LOA. I bid SIBA for a three month period only. They brought me over to HKG for a hotel standby for two weeks. This morning after five days of standby I had a notification that I needed to be downstairs for GT to CAN in an hour, so I called scheduling. I referenced the contract. They sent me to the duty officer. I referenced the two hour provision in the contract again, and then went to the LOA which waives the GT provision from the contract. Then I said, "I didn't sign the LOA, I am not receiving any of the benefits associated with the LOA, why are selective portions of the LOA being applied to me?" The duty officer indicated that I knew what kind of flying would be possible with SIBA when I bid it. I agreed, but this is not flying, it is GT. He said he had the authority to change it, but that he disagreed, and to talk to Rose at the Union if I wanted to pursue it. To be clear, we spoke at length, and the conversation was not heated. I simply said that I wanted to be legal.
Rhetorically, if I have hotel standby in Memphis, can they call and put me in a limo for a three and a half hours to position to Nashville?...
I am in CAN now, so they just did.
Also, the ride dangerous... I remember a ride in a bus in Bolivia through the Andes sitting next to a womean holding a chicken that was worse, but just barely.
Regardless, I am a Memphis based pilot. I have not signed the FDA LOA. I bid SIBA for a three month period only. They brought me over to HKG for a hotel standby for two weeks. This morning after five days of standby I had a notification that I needed to be downstairs for GT to CAN in an hour, so I called scheduling. I referenced the contract. They sent me to the duty officer. I referenced the two hour provision in the contract again, and then went to the LOA which waives the GT provision from the contract. Then I said, "I didn't sign the LOA, I am not receiving any of the benefits associated with the LOA, why are selective portions of the LOA being applied to me?" The duty officer indicated that I knew what kind of flying would be possible with SIBA when I bid it. I agreed, but this is not flying, it is GT. He said he had the authority to change it, but that he disagreed, and to talk to Rose at the Union if I wanted to pursue it. To be clear, we spoke at length, and the conversation was not heated. I simply said that I wanted to be legal.
Rhetorically, if I have hotel standby in Memphis, can they call and put me in a limo for a three and a half hours to position to Nashville?...
I am in CAN now, so they just did.
Also, the ride dangerous... I remember a ride in a bus in Bolivia through the Andes sitting next to a womean holding a chicken that was worse, but just barely.
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
When you called the Union, what did they say?
If you have been assigned an illegal duty period (GT) then file a Grievance.
Don't ask for help here, you won't get it.
If you have been assigned an illegal duty period (GT) then file a Grievance.
Don't ask for help here, you won't get it.
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