I understand, I am new to commuting and need all the help and advice I can get. It is what it is, no complaints here.

Our union guy is taking u guys to dinner. Ask him all your questions. Ask anything. Really

Appreciate all the info from you guys. Think it will make the transition much easier from where I am now to working down there.

Congrats to those who are receiving offers, and particularly to the ones who accept. While it is unfortunate that you have to pay for a place to stay during training it is a investment in your career with ABX. It's true that ATI is a home-based airline and does not have these initial costs, but you have to look beyond the short term to see the end game.

As mentioned, new-hires (even at ATI..) are on probation. Ask intelligent questions, fly low, and if you get lost speak up to a Union rep or line pilot quietly and privately for guidance.

Training is not like the 'old' days. Our program can be viewed as strict by some, but it simply requires a high level of standardization. It really becomes invaluable during long and late night operations and overall will make you a better pilot hands down. B767 training is much different that ABX's old days of hand flown a/c. Some 80% will be on autopilot and will require you to have a good understanding of the FMS, MCP, and auto-flight relationship. Couple that with systems knowledge, airmanship, and standardized call-outs...you've mastered the course. Yes, there is a little hand flying involved as well....what airline doesn't have some? Study hard, work after class/sim with paper tigers and chair flying and you'll be successful.

Well, the way they look at it is that you aren't CVG based until you complete training.

I passed on them. I no showed the ATI interview and cancelled the ABX. ABX is the way to go if given the option of the two. I just dont see the pay going anywhere but down. Talked to guys on both sides and pretty much confirmed what numerous post on here indicate. The ATI pilot group has been beaten with the worst negotiations in history and the process has just spelled out loss after loss after loss. They make substantially less and will be held to ABX like a knife in the throat. I guess the ABX and ATI unions literally won't even speak to one another. If things are like that management is probably going to laugh when ABX is release to self help. Its a sad situation... Could be a good job but until things are worked out its going to be for time builders who aren't looking long term.

To set the record straight. The ATI MEC sold out the pilot group by not allowing negotiations to proceed. Like a Labrador puppy being distracted by a new ball. As far as pay....I have a feeling our negotiating committee has that issue covered. And....the ATI MEC chooses not to speak to us,,we get along fine with ATI crews.

To set the record straight, this person does not work for ATI, nor does he have some secret inside track into the inner workings of our Union Leadership or our Negotiations Committee.

To set the record straight, the Amendable Date for the ATI CBA was May 28'th, 2014. Due to the furlough of Feb, 2014 (which decimated many Union Committees including the Negotiating Committee) and the death of a crew member who stepped up to the Negotiating Committee, negotiations were suspended for a time by the Union. Then, with the Neg. Comm. up to speed, we responded to Mgts opener to which Mgt, feigning righteous indignation, walked out of negotiations. Within the last two months, I have personally witnessed our Negotiating Chairman, in public, ask a member of Senior Mgt, "...we need to schedule dates for negotiations".
So again, to set the record straight, it is Mgt that is stalling when it comes to negotiations.

As far as pay goes, I recently had a great conversation with an EXCO member. During that conversation, he had made a statement, and I quote, "We don't care who fly's 767 in CVG, so long as it's at the same rate".
So again, to set the record straight, we whole heartedly agree with him, our rates should be the same. And now with an improving economy and with great new business (Amazon and international work) we feel that we are in a great position to bargain with Mgt.

As for our MEC Leadership, to set the record straight , they have never, ever said "we refuse" to talk to your EXCO. Due to twice in the not so distant past, previous IBT EXCO's have sought to directly undermine our group, so with that in mind we are taking the approach "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts" and proceeding with an abundance of caution. And it's incendiary post such as these that lends credence to that approach.


With Respect,

FAJ

I know Motor think I might be an ATI or an ex-ABX guy. None of that. I interviewed and received the May 9th class invitation.

I much appreciate that, but after many considerations, thoughts I have to say I don't think ABX will be my future. Probably, tomorrow, I will call Tracey and let her know to call someone else for the 9th.

I think ( or at least aviation in the last 20 years thought me that ) if something is too good to be true, them, maybe, it's not true.

Interviewing at middle management level ( Jeff, CP, etc ), doesn't say anything. They only can hire you or not. However, they can not and will never know the company's future. They are in dark as much as any line pilot. Maybe, they will know something a day before the line pilot, but nothing else. If I learnt something out of aviation in the last 20 years is that don't believe it until you fly it and stay away from Kool-Aid staff.

ATSG got 20 planes split equally between ATI and ABX. ABX will hire 50-60 pilots by the end of this year to fulfill the need for the extra planes. The rumor Amazon is gonna need an extra 40 planes ( that way to double the pilot force ) is just a rumor. Nobody knows how this deal will work out. Present deal is just for 5 years.

50-60 pilots means 260 total. If 50/50 ratio CAs to FOs, that means probably 2-30 pilots will get upgraded to CA. With 120-130 CAs, for the new 50-60 guys( these are us, the new hired ) to make CAs will take ( if the business stays the way is forecasted ) almost 15 years for the first of 50-60s to become CA. That's a lot of time.

I know the money is good. But to be an FO for at least 15 years ( most present junior CA is 1992 - that's 24 years back, and 50-60 new guys means nothing ) until the first of us to be able to bid for CA is a long time. I know the FO makes as much, even if not a bit more than a CA for some other companies. But I'd rather be a CA for that kind of money ( even if underpaid by ABX standards ). Home based is a biggy too.

Presently to ABX hiring 50-60 guys means nothing. No coasts. Cheap labor. The training is in the house, they pay no hotels, no per-diem. If we make it through the training, still for one year we have no protection, which means if you **** off any of the present guys ( they know each other furt' smell ), you are out. 43 G salary is nothing to them. They pay us the normal training cost as salary. Excellent deal to them. Also we gonna need a crash pad for many years to come.

If ABX will be doubling the fleet in the next 5 years, then becoming CA faster might be a possibility. But again, for ATSG to get an extra 40 planes is just an APC rumor. For us to become CAs faster will requires the pilot number to be increased to 500-520 and that requires a double fleet.

Will Amazon be that successful? I really hope so, but I doubt it. I don't think it will compete FedEx or UPS. It might take away some of their business by shipping their own staff and using the two large one less, but not competing.
If Amazon becomes very successful, the government will want ( it already wants that) its cut. So taxes will be a huge turn off for Amazon buyers ( better go to the Mall then. At least you see what you buy ). If that happens, the present/future business model might not work. That means ABX fleet might not double ( just a rumor anyway ). Then, there will not be a need for 500 or so pilots, so I would never make CA until 50 pct ahead of me will retire. That if I don't get furloughed.

I wish ABX a great future. A great company with a great past but I will pass.

We will miss not having you.............NEXT!