FedEx Passover Pay
02-13-2007, 07:09 AM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
If they did one month in ANC then they activated in ANC. If the guy went straight to MEM that is a different story.
I still think that the union should have been more upfront with the individuals involved before they settled for a measly 150 dollars. And NOTHING excuses them from treating ANY member without respect.
I still think that the union should have been more upfront with the individuals involved before they settled for a measly 150 dollars. And NOTHING excuses them from treating ANY member without respect.
02-13-2007, 08:55 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Bench Warmer
Posts: 241
Sorry...I have to disagree...
Originally Posted by Jetjok
CB,
Sometimes the climb to the top ain't worth the view. I'm not saying you shouldn't stick to your guys on this one, just that you really don't want to get the kind of reputation that will then not allow you some nice perks later on in your career here. Things such as helping get your old buds hired, maybe getting into training or management, etc, etc.
Good luck.
Sometimes the climb to the top ain't worth the view. I'm not saying you shouldn't stick to your guys on this one, just that you really don't want to get the kind of reputation that will then not allow you some nice perks later on in your career here. Things such as helping get your old buds hired, maybe getting into training or management, etc, etc.
Good luck.
That is one of the BIGGEST problems here at FDX...“Cooperate – Graduate” It is the “YES MAN” mentality that is apparent in every department you walk into at this company. I believe that this is the downfall of this group.
As far as changing of blood from guys that have been “away from the line” should be mandatory…career management and union members should be outlawed.
02-13-2007, 09:21 AM
#53
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 94
True True
Originally Posted by Jetjok
CB,
Sometimes the climb to the top ain't worth the view. I'm not saying you shouldn't stick to your guys on this one, just that you really don't want to get the kind of reputation that will then not allow you some nice perks later on in your career here. Things such as helping get your old buds hired, maybe getting into training or management, etc, etc.
Good luck.
Sometimes the climb to the top ain't worth the view. I'm not saying you shouldn't stick to your guys on this one, just that you really don't want to get the kind of reputation that will then not allow you some nice perks later on in your career here. Things such as helping get your old buds hired, maybe getting into training or management, etc, etc.
Good luck.
Very true words you speak. Our group approached the union last fall with this issue and we were told to wait until said Pilot was activated so he would not have to pay back passover pay or more importantly get yanked out of training. We chose to do what the union asked. Said Pilot activated on a Friday and we began asking our questions on a Monday. Guess what, the deal had already been cut two weeks prior between the Company and ALPA.
Your point is well taken and I already have an awesome job at FedEx. I am having to weigh my role in this with the fact some feathers may be ruffled. With that, I have stuck with the truth, revealed all correspondance word for word, and exposed the inability of the union to provide the agreed upon resolution. With that, I must accept accountability for the political ramifications you speak of. The fact remains: Someone JR. to me, with the same bid from 06-02, trained prior to me (and 100+ others), and my training has been slid. In my small red-neck pea brain, thats what Ch 24 says should trigger passover pay. We will never see one penney of it because it appears that the union has piggy-backed our passover pay issue onto a 5 year old grievance in which no one at ALPA will provide? until we are provided answers (not just the ones we want Capt. WH) how can we truly evaluate the situation and motive behind the union? Can anyone please help the JR pilots in this matter?
02-13-2007, 12:01 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD11 F/O
Posts: 653
Coffee, Thanks for posting this. I thought it was just some crew bus gossip. Here's what I see. Our union negotiated somthing away and WILL NOT TELL us why. Completely unacceptable and my block rep(5) will here from me. I'm not calling for heads yet, but if we puss out or sell out the junior guys, then somethings got to change. You deserve a public message about this situation.
02-13-2007, 12:21 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: FedEx Capt
Posts: 292
Originally Posted by Coffee *****
...can we truly evaluate the situation and motive behind the union? Can anyone please help the JR pilots in this matter?
02-13-2007, 09:25 PM
#57
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2
This Deserves At Least An Alpa Response!
WOW!!! Thanks for high-lighting this most important issue!
After reading through the CBA and doing some in-depth research and asking "OUR" ALPA Union for some answers, I am appalled at what I found out!!! To keep it brief:
I'll paraphrase David Taylor, MEC senior contract specialist's response. "You don't have all the info. you need to call and question ALPA's settlement with the company." I said, well can you please provide me with this "settlement" information and why we were not informed that a "negotiation" had taken place without our pilot's being informed so that I may become more informed. The answer was basically "NO", and "we don't have time right now to address your issue." What? Don't have time?
So I called my block rep.. I basically got a less than satisfactory response. To summarize that conversation, I was told that pilot's that built this company sat "sideways" for 5-7 years, and it's simply "embarassing" that junior company pilot's are "whining" about passover pay at this point. I simply said that it was written in the contract that way...hell, I didn't write it! Again, he said a "settlement" had taken place that changed the nature of passover pay, attorney's were involved, and ALPA has agreed with the company to not pay passover pay due to a past grievance that had been filed.....not to be confused with a grievance that involves this current situation....one hasn't been filed to my knowledge.
If ALPA negotiated something/anything, don't we as good-standing members have a need to know, especially if it affects over 100+ pilots? I'm okay with the fact that ALPA might have agreed to something that changed the wording in the contract. What I'm NOT okay with is why NOBODY was aware of these negotiations and why NO ONE has heard or seen ANYTHING on a settlement that must have been a very big deal!!!
THE MORE QUESTIONS I ASK, THE MORE I FEEL I AM GETTING BLOWN OFF AND THIS ISSUE KEPT A SECRET! Has anyone found out anything or seen anything about the Jan 12th settlement with the company?
BTW: I don't think it's ironic that NO ONE can show us anything about this settlement. Not ONE pilot has been given an adequate answer to any of these simple questions. Obviously, many pilot's are concerned, and ALPA hasn't even addressed the issue! JUST WRONG.
~~~If you're not curious, maybe you were part of the "SECRET SETTLEMENT" and are hiding something as well.~~~
After reading through the CBA and doing some in-depth research and asking "OUR" ALPA Union for some answers, I am appalled at what I found out!!! To keep it brief:
I'll paraphrase David Taylor, MEC senior contract specialist's response. "You don't have all the info. you need to call and question ALPA's settlement with the company." I said, well can you please provide me with this "settlement" information and why we were not informed that a "negotiation" had taken place without our pilot's being informed so that I may become more informed. The answer was basically "NO", and "we don't have time right now to address your issue." What? Don't have time?
So I called my block rep.. I basically got a less than satisfactory response. To summarize that conversation, I was told that pilot's that built this company sat "sideways" for 5-7 years, and it's simply "embarassing" that junior company pilot's are "whining" about passover pay at this point. I simply said that it was written in the contract that way...hell, I didn't write it! Again, he said a "settlement" had taken place that changed the nature of passover pay, attorney's were involved, and ALPA has agreed with the company to not pay passover pay due to a past grievance that had been filed.....not to be confused with a grievance that involves this current situation....one hasn't been filed to my knowledge.
If ALPA negotiated something/anything, don't we as good-standing members have a need to know, especially if it affects over 100+ pilots? I'm okay with the fact that ALPA might have agreed to something that changed the wording in the contract. What I'm NOT okay with is why NOBODY was aware of these negotiations and why NO ONE has heard or seen ANYTHING on a settlement that must have been a very big deal!!!
THE MORE QUESTIONS I ASK, THE MORE I FEEL I AM GETTING BLOWN OFF AND THIS ISSUE KEPT A SECRET! Has anyone found out anything or seen anything about the Jan 12th settlement with the company?
BTW: I don't think it's ironic that NO ONE can show us anything about this settlement. Not ONE pilot has been given an adequate answer to any of these simple questions. Obviously, many pilot's are concerned, and ALPA hasn't even addressed the issue! JUST WRONG.
~~~If you're not curious, maybe you were part of the "SECRET SETTLEMENT" and are hiding something as well.~~~
02-14-2007, 03:30 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Don't get me wrong here. I also think ALPA takes care of the top 50% at the expense of newhires and those "not on the property long enough".
But.....
There was a crazy loophole that was encountered by folks about to enter or in MD-11 training. Bid ANC and get a quick class date. Then get MEM on the next bid (junior to many who didn't bid ANC at all) and get awarded it with with the ANC MD-11 class date (out of order).
Past practice, as I understand it, was to change the award of someone about to start training or in training. Maybe this issue is just too tangled to properly untangle to EVERYONE's satisfaction.
If I step back, calm down, and consider the comments about being in the back seat for 5+ years may have been meant to emphasize how good things are now, this makes more sense.
But the secret deal BS is not good. Not right and it leads to distrust of ALPA. It WILL cause the membership to become more fragmented. ALPA may not be eating their young here, just alienating them because they can now with the closed shop.
With the history of FedEx management being hardnosed and unreasonable on every issue, I'm surprised passover is paid at all until the case gets to the supreme court.
Not trying to diminish the importance to someone's pocketbook, just looking for perspective......
Somebody tell me why a member can't get his/her own legal council to get to the bottom of this.
But.....
There was a crazy loophole that was encountered by folks about to enter or in MD-11 training. Bid ANC and get a quick class date. Then get MEM on the next bid (junior to many who didn't bid ANC at all) and get awarded it with with the ANC MD-11 class date (out of order).
Past practice, as I understand it, was to change the award of someone about to start training or in training. Maybe this issue is just too tangled to properly untangle to EVERYONE's satisfaction.
If I step back, calm down, and consider the comments about being in the back seat for 5+ years may have been meant to emphasize how good things are now, this makes more sense.
But the secret deal BS is not good. Not right and it leads to distrust of ALPA. It WILL cause the membership to become more fragmented. ALPA may not be eating their young here, just alienating them because they can now with the closed shop.
With the history of FedEx management being hardnosed and unreasonable on every issue, I'm surprised passover is paid at all until the case gets to the supreme court.
Not trying to diminish the importance to someone's pocketbook, just looking for perspective......
Somebody tell me why a member can't get his/her own legal council to get to the bottom of this.
Last edited by Gunter; 02-14-2007 at 03:37 AM.
02-14-2007, 03:46 AM
#60
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 94
My situation is even more simple. I lost my right seat bid on 05-03 and the JR pilot sort of kept his 05-03 bid (training date moved to behind all the nuggets) when 06-02 was posted. That meant I was a SO for the "bonus" and not a right seater for another 18 months. Two pilots in the same situation get treated differently and the JR guy makes out +$75K more because of the company's admitted mistake.
Am I childish and stubborn as the Union suggests or would anyone else be asking for answers?
And to Cheetah's reply, If Dave Risch thinks he is embarrassed, he should be on our side of the fence !!!
Am I childish and stubborn as the Union suggests or would anyone else be asking for answers?
And to Cheetah's reply, If Dave Risch thinks he is embarrassed, he should be on our side of the fence !!!
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