Any Purple Nuggets bidding the lower 48?
02-17-2007, 05:34 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by nightfreight
Redeye,
I don't know about your idea of bidding ANC for the $$$. I was awarded MEM on the Sep05 bid, but got my training pushed back 4 months due to Purple Nuggets. How were we supposed to know this would happen. I don't think it would have helped me at that point to bid ANC. The bidding system is flawed and should be fixed. How about bidding for training and a training date with it? This way seniority rules and the most senior people choose their training dates. This isn't uncommon, they did this at my former carrier. Seemed to work well. It takes this whole passover pay out of the equation.
Anyway, you shouldn't have to out think the system and shouldn't be told a month out that your training will be pushed back 4 months and you aren't going to compensated for it. We make a big deal out of bidding vacation and only have a little bit of life planning in this job. Now your family plans change out a month out or so. That is part of life at Fedex, but if they change your class date, you should get paid. The bottom line is that we had our training delayed so new hires could fill these classes. Where you are domiciled at that point should have no basis in regards to passover pay.
It is a bad system, and this will continue since the union let this become a precedent. New hires will keep going to junior bases (now ANC) and guys will continue to get their training delayed. Why bother to plan vacations if you have no idea when you can take it? There must be a better way...
I don't know about your idea of bidding ANC for the $$$. I was awarded MEM on the Sep05 bid, but got my training pushed back 4 months due to Purple Nuggets. How were we supposed to know this would happen. I don't think it would have helped me at that point to bid ANC. The bidding system is flawed and should be fixed. How about bidding for training and a training date with it? This way seniority rules and the most senior people choose their training dates. This isn't uncommon, they did this at my former carrier. Seemed to work well. It takes this whole passover pay out of the equation.
Anyway, you shouldn't have to out think the system and shouldn't be told a month out that your training will be pushed back 4 months and you aren't going to compensated for it. We make a big deal out of bidding vacation and only have a little bit of life planning in this job. Now your family plans change out a month out or so. That is part of life at Fedex, but if they change your class date, you should get paid. The bottom line is that we had our training delayed so new hires could fill these classes. Where you are domiciled at that point should have no basis in regards to passover pay.
It is a bad system, and this will continue since the union let this become a precedent. New hires will keep going to junior bases (now ANC) and guys will continue to get their training delayed. Why bother to plan vacations if you have no idea when you can take it? There must be a better way...
The contract is explicit in this matter. Same seat, same domicile, same (or later) bid in order to get passover pay. The training delay has to be due to a junior pilot training for the same seat AND domicile as you, and that isn't what happened in most of the cases. I think the jury is still out on at least one though if the MEC negotiated a backdoor deal with the company.
Now the company may have found a loophole to staff the ANC domicile, and we may need to work on that, but they are simply following the contract and using it to their advantage. Bidding for training dates is maybe something we should address in our next contract, but it doesn't change the current agreement.
If you want widebody pay bid ANC and take your chances. If you didn't bid it because you don't want to go up there then be at peace with your choice and don't begrudge the junior guys for getting the better deal.
I'll bet these guys won't complain when they want to lateral over to LAX (if they do) and then go ahead of a guy senior to them who is waiting for a training date. That senior guy won't be due passover pay either.
02-17-2007, 05:53 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 424
Snafu,
Since you have no idea when you will train, how can you be so sure that you will get an earlier training date in ANC? I bid ANC, but bid MEM higher. I was awarded MEM. Again, why do I have to out think the system? Am I supposed to have any idea when I am going to train when I put in my bid? Should I expect to be one month out of training and then be delayed 4 months? Should I expect someone from next years bid will train ahead of me (albeit a senior person)?
This "new hire mentality" crap that you talk about is annoying at best. I have been an ALPA member (legacy) for 9 years. Not that is a long time, but I am not a complete newbie. Basically, the company is using a loophole to staff ANC. I understand the what the contract says. But, nonetheless, I don't believe that it was the intent. By rolling over on the issue, others will get delayed the same way we did. A grievance should have been filed with the expectation of, at the very least, fixing the problem. It won't effect me anymore, but it will effect others in upcoming bids.
I don't feel entitled to anything. There are alot of great things at Fedex, but this is not one of them.
Since you have no idea when you will train, how can you be so sure that you will get an earlier training date in ANC? I bid ANC, but bid MEM higher. I was awarded MEM. Again, why do I have to out think the system? Am I supposed to have any idea when I am going to train when I put in my bid? Should I expect to be one month out of training and then be delayed 4 months? Should I expect someone from next years bid will train ahead of me (albeit a senior person)?
This "new hire mentality" crap that you talk about is annoying at best. I have been an ALPA member (legacy) for 9 years. Not that is a long time, but I am not a complete newbie. Basically, the company is using a loophole to staff ANC. I understand the what the contract says. But, nonetheless, I don't believe that it was the intent. By rolling over on the issue, others will get delayed the same way we did. A grievance should have been filed with the expectation of, at the very least, fixing the problem. It won't effect me anymore, but it will effect others in upcoming bids.
I don't feel entitled to anything. There are alot of great things at Fedex, but this is not one of them.
02-17-2007, 06:53 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by nightfreight
Am I supposed to have any idea when I am going to train when I put in my bid? .
Past...
02-18-2007, 05:21 AM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Nightfreight: I don't mean it in a bad way. I have heard a lot of confusion about passover pay from the newer hires, that is all I meant. I would be PO'd at the treatment from the union if I was coffee*****. That is unacceptable. We are in agreement that the training uncertainty sucks. That is probably the main reason so many guys wait so long to upgrade. They have a great schedule in and out of their hometown and they don't want the hassle of getting assigned a training date that might knock out their vacation or cause them to miss their kid's wedding. I agree that it should be negotiated in the next contract.
Until then, however, there is NOTHING to grieve. The company is following the contract and I have no problem with that. I'd rather have it go this way than to have guys displaced to ANC.
Training dates here slide all the time for many reasons, it is just something to get used to, until/if the crew force decides to make it an issue on the next contract negotiation.
I am sorry if my post offended you or any of the other newer hires around. It wasn't meant to.
Until then, however, there is NOTHING to grieve. The company is following the contract and I have no problem with that. I'd rather have it go this way than to have guys displaced to ANC.
Training dates here slide all the time for many reasons, it is just something to get used to, until/if the crew force decides to make it an issue on the next contract negotiation.
I am sorry if my post offended you or any of the other newer hires around. It wasn't meant to.
02-18-2007, 06:49 AM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 53
Training is just a bad deal here, it always comes at the worst possible time. Usually during vacation or important family trips. So when you bid, plan on it and hope to be pleasantly supprised, but expect the worst.
In over 20 years I have never had a training event (upgrade) that wasent scheduled during my summer vacation period.
In over 20 years I have never had a training event (upgrade) that wasent scheduled during my summer vacation period.
02-18-2007, 04:18 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by SuperMario
Not any more...I've had several pilots junior to me activate in MEM AHEAD of me. How? They bid ANC (when they couldn't even hold MEM), then subsequently bid MEM and held it. These folks spent approx. 1-3 months in ANC before the company brought them back. Meanwhile, my MEM MD-11 FO training date slides..and slides...and slides...(due to the PN), so that these junior pilots activate in MEM before I even finished training!
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