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Mia73^^^^^^
Still an airline that will step over a dollar to pick up a penny. |
U sure u don't work at Omni?
Originally Posted by Miami73
(Post 1973192)
For anyone who is considering accepting a class here, be sure you do your research and homework. Know what you are getting into- this place is not for everyone... if you're looking to build time, it will take you about 1.5-2 years to get about 500 hours in the 737. This is not a time building airline... if you're looking to make some cash, you'll make peanuts compared to any other 121 carrier (regional or other).
Miami Air is not what it used to be, and just do your homework before signing on the dotted line for your $18,000 commitment here. Management is trying very hard to attract pilots, simply because many first officers and even captains are leaving. Trying hard by talking but with no action. Pay has not increased, QOL has not increased, training bond has not gone away, etc. We have a few pilots leaving for the majors, but even have pilots leaving for regionals. A lot of the guys were unhappy but hanging around hoping for an improvement with the new contract, but that has stalled and it's apparent that giving up their spot here and starting over somewhere else is a better bet. Management has no intention of increasing the pay to anything close to industry average- they say the "awe" of flying a 737 will attract pilots and then once here the $18,000 training bond will keep pilots here or fund their replacement if they do leave. If you think you can come here and just wait a little until the "golden" contract comes around, you'll be in for a big surprise. Management has said multiple times that this contract is a "neutral" contract and any gains in one section will be offset by concessions on the pilot's part. When most of the original negotiating committee has quit, that should be easy writing on the wall... You will spend a lot of time in vans driving around in the middle of the night after long days of flying to reposition. 4 hour (or longer) van rides are pretty common to drive crews around Florida (or other parts of the country). Don't count on any non-stop flights when you commercial to meet the plane or go home. If you need to go from Miami to LA, plan on having a really early report time (like 4am) in Miami, and then driving to FLL, then flying to ATL, then flying to LA (as an example). Something that can be done in 6 or 7 hours will take you 15 or more (just an an example). Even going from Miami to Atlanta will take you 15 hours since they will route you through CLT or IAH or something instead (with a nice long ground sit). I've even seen crews with two or three connections for domestic flights because it saved the company $10. Tickets are bought last minute, so you are on your own to try and fight out of the dreaded middle seat. The tickets are the cheapest they can find, so there is no economy plus "upgrade" or anything like that. And no, there is no deadhead pay here. Go to Priceline and scroll to the last option and that is usually what travel will give you for commercials. :eek: Ask any pilot here and they will tell you the commercialing is the worst part of our job- and we do it more than 50% of the time when on the clock. 117 doesn't apply and they can keep us out for 22 hours when deadheading. You will have the chance to see some cool places, but the layovers have gone to minimum rest for the most part and they keep us in hotels by the airport or away from the city most of the time (cheapest option). Unless you plan on not sleeping and spending money on taxis, you won't get to see the places you're flying to. The moral is in the toilet- I haven't seen it this low in a long time. But nobody seems to care. :( A simple thing like having KCM is too expensive for Miami Air. I don't know any other airline that doesn't have KCM, but we don't have it here. It costs the company some extra cash and they don't see a return on it, so they don't see a need for it. On the flip side, the crews are awesome and some of the best people in the industry... unfortunately many of them are so beat up right now that there is a lot of complaining while at work. Makes long trips feel even longer when there is so much complaining going on... My suggestion, keep your options open and keep an eye on Eastern down the street if you're looking for a 737 gig in Miami. Higher pay, actual projected growth. A lot of guys are making the move over there... (captains and first officers)... might be a gamble for them, but it beats what is going on here. Our management wants a small fleet... they want to run it old school and they don't show appreciation to the crews/employees. Nothing will get better unless there is a drastic change here... which nobody expects.... Either way- good luck |
Originally Posted by halcyon4
(Post 1973590)
This post fits Omni to a T.
Sad to see that Omni is going down the same road…. it makes for a very unpleasant work environment. And if you were at least building time and/or being paid decently, it may be worth the hassle of coming here and putting up with it for a few years…. (maybe)….. but for the low wages at Miami Air, the disgustingly non-existent retirement contribution and the joke of a Bonus program (maybe a couple peanuts every few years if you’re lucky)…. it’s just not a smart financial move to come here at this point in time - in my opinion. It’s not what is was 5, 10 or even 15 years ago. You’d be hard pressed to find more then a couple pilots at Miami Air now that are genuinely happy to be here. Pretty much everyone who can is actively looking to leave. When you have senior first officers (close to upgrading) and captains leaving, that should tell you something. Management is starting to hold the carrot of “possible short upgrade time” in front of people to try and stop the guys from leaving and to try and attract new guys. But there is a reason so many people are leaving… and it’s not because upgrading makes life better here. If anything, your stress level goes way up! And if you need your 1,000 PIC… be prepared to be in the left seat for at least 3-4 years before you hit that number. But since the company can bypass pilots for upgrade, just because you get on doesn’t mean you’ll upgrade when you’re number is up. At least you’re getting paid the lowest wages for a narrow body in the industry! :mad: For those that are interested in the Charter flying world and really want to get out of their current job (regional or cooperate or something), Atlas and Eastern are probably much better bets at this point- and something to look into. With Atlas you have a much higher take home pay check, better work rules, better rest facilities and wide body experience. We’ve had a lot of guys over the years go over there. With Eastern you have the same MIA base, an actual projected growth plan, and a company investing in itself! The potential at both is much higher than anything here. I know some of the guys here say- “at least we have a lot of time off at home”, but at the end of the day, you need to be able to pay your bills, retire at the end of your career, and have an airline to go to work to when you do go to work. Miami Air is winding down- into what, your guess is as good as mine. But the planes are not being invested into, the company is not investing into it’s crews/employees, they are not investing into new customers or the ones we have, and it’s obvious that every loose penny is being taken. We’ve continued to shrink in the last 5 years or so. They’re letting talent from every department leave to competitors, and they don’t seem to care at all. There is no apparent care for the future of this company. Regionals are paying up to $15,000 signing on bonus to pilots to try and attract them… plus other benefits like non-rev opportunities, KCM, trip trading/dropping, etc. Once you show up, they have some incentive to keep you happy to keep you there. One is paying a $20,000 per year retention bonus just for staying on property. Miami Air is still making pilots sign an $18,000 training contract… and once you’re in the door, they have no reason to care about your happiness, because if you leave, they’ll use your training bond to pay for the next guy in your seat. We’ve had guys leave during training because they realized what they had gotten themselves into and quickly found other opportunities! I don’t know the exact numbers, but there are probably over two dozen guys currently making payments on their training contracts because they decided they rather leave then wait it out. The Majors and Legacies are all getting new contracts with increased pay, benefits, etc. The industry as a whole is reacting to the “pilot shortage”… Meanwhile, Miami Air is still working off a contract from 2008 (which has the lowest wages and benefits in the industry for narrow body equipment) and still insists any new contract we might get will be cost neutral to the pilots. “Pilots will be lucky to come fly the 737 for us.” :eek: Welcome to the Miami Air way of doing business! As I said before, unless something drastic happens here, we will be nothing but a one plane operation pretty soon doing some loose flying here and there… Either because we’ve lost all our customers and/or because we have no crews/employees left to actually operate the flights. The track we’re on right now is not good! It’s a crazy industry, so do your research before you make any moves…. good luck! |
Drastic change is on the way, with the ever-increasing number of retirees, and the ever-decreasing number of new pilot starts. Parked planes will get someone's attention.
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You can always follow your peers and move to Xtra were the real lowest pay for narrow body pay in the world is and now they are going to salary with no overtime allowed. About a 30% pay cut for most. I don't understand how these charter companies think they will operate when no one is left to fly the planes?
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While I would not quite go as deep into the doom and gloom as Miami73, I can agree with most of what he says.
Having been on property a year and a half I have experienced a lot of what Miami73 describes though the van rides and commercials are not in my opinion as bad he says. I have only been stuck in a middle seat 1 time thus far and it was on a short flight so it did not matter much anyway. Once you get enough miles to get status which will happen fairly quickly you will get to pick better seats and even get upgraded to business/first occasionally. I have done a few van rides to Punta Gorda, Tampa, and Orlando but I have never done more 1 or 2 of them in a month and honestly have not even had a van ride longer than an hour in more than a few months. The pay does suck and the 3 year contract is terrible but we do pay more than any regional airline so I think its a good option for someone looking to get out of the regionals and into charter. I think the pay will go up quite a bit once we get the new contract but obviously no one knows for sure. The company wants the contract done by the end of the year and from the looks of things it might actually happen. If its worth voting yes on is yet to be seen of course. Keep in mind there are quite a few bonuses to working for a charter airline such as racking up those airline miles and hotel points. This is something most if not all scheduled airlines do not get. Of course we do not get the non rev benefits that they get but you will have CASS and can jumpseat on most US carriers. In short, from my limited time. I like it here. Every airline is going to have its flaws and we have some big ones but thus far I have enjoyed myself here more than any other airline I have worked for. If you can handle only flying a few hundred hours a year and deal with the flaws we have it can be a good place to work. Especially if some of the pay and other concerns are addressed in the upcoming contract. |
Originally Posted by anthony210
(Post 1974223)
While I would not quite go as deep into the doom and gloom as Miami73, I can agree with most of what he says.
Having been on property a year and a half I have experienced a lot of what Miami73 describes though the van rides and commercials are not in my opinion as bad he says. I have only been stuck in a middle seat 1 time thus far and it was on a short flight so it did not matter much anyway. Once you get enough miles to get status which will happen fairly quickly you will get to pick better seats and even get upgraded to business/first occasionally. I have done a few van rides to Punta Gorda, Tampa, and Orlando but I have never done more 1 or 2 of them in a month and honestly have not even had a van ride longer than an hour in more than a few months. The pay does suck and the 3 year contract is terrible but we do pay more than any regional airline so I think its a good option for someone looking to get out of the regionals and into charter. I think the pay will go up quite a bit once we get the new contract but obviously no one knows for sure. The company wants the contract done by the end of the year and from the looks of things it might actually happen. If its worth voting yes on is yet to be seen of course. Keep in mind there are quite a few bonuses to working for a charter airline such as racking up those airline miles and hotel points. This is something most if not all scheduled airlines do not get. Of course we do not get the non rev benefits that they get but you will have CASS and can jumpseat on most US carriers. In short, from my limited time. I like it here. Every airline is going to have its flaws and we have some big ones but thus far I have enjoyed myself here more than any other airline I have worked for. If you can handle only flying a few hundred hours a year and deal with the flaws we have it can be a good place to work. Especially if some of the pay and other concerns are addressed in the upcoming contract. Anything can be justified I suppose. But 1.5 years is not a lot of time to see the bigger trend. I hope I'm wrong, but holding out for a "significant" increase in pay in the new contract is exactly what management is hoping everyone does. It buys them some more time! When (and if) a new contract ever comes to vote, how fast do you think everyone on the fence will bail when they see the actual numbers? It's not going to be anywhere close to what we are hoping or expecting.... Maybe you're one of the "chosen" ones, but my schedule is full of ridiculous commercials and van rides. Wanna trade schedules?! :p The pay/compensation here is flat out a joke compared to the other Majors and Legacies. People were willing to accept the lower pay in the past for the good quality of life. Now with a crappy quality of life (horrible deadheads, short layovers, crappy hotels, less exotic destinations, bad trips, etc) it's hard to justify being treated like this while being poorly compensated... hence the large amount of captains and first officers leaving. Enough said on that. I still believe that someone looking to get into the charter world is better off looking at Eastern and/or Atlas. The pay is better, the potential is better, and the risk regarding a future is no greater than what we have here. Not sure what Miami Air can offer above those two carriers right now?!?!? btw- have you tried using your miles lately? With the new award rules, you accrue less (sometimes none on our tickets that travel books) and it takes a lot more to get an award. I'd rather make more $$$ and use it to buy a ticket if I want to fly or for something else... |
Originally Posted by hoover
(Post 1974192)
You can always follow your peers and move to Xtra were the real lowest pay for narrow body pay in the world is and now they are going to salary with no overtime allowed. About a 30% pay cut for most. I don't understand how these charter companies think they will operate when no one is left to fly the planes?
Out of curiosity, what's the salary figures? |
"...but we do pay more than any regional airline..."
Just as an example at how low our pay is: Miami Air first year pay is $41.14 $41.14 x 70 hr guarantee = $2,879.80 $2,879.80 x 12 months = $34,557.60 gross pay for first year Endeavor first year pay is $25.00 (*as per Airline Pilot Central) $25.00 x 75 hr guarantee is $1,875.00 $1,875.00 x 12 months = $22,500.00 Retention BONUS = $20,000.00 Gross pay for first year = $42,500.00 I know we have the opportunity to make some extras here, but that's assuming no extras at Endeavor either. Apples vs Apples. *Food for thought* |
Just talked to Training. Two classes in October for 18 new hires total. Captain upgrade class in January, then more upgrades to follow, although those dates haven't been set this far out. Guys upgrading in the spring will have been on property about 3 years.
But that brings up a point made by Miami73. Management can bypass someone for upgrade for pretty much any reason they feel like. Upgrades are NOT done in strict seniority order. There are currently 8 FO's on the seniority list that have been bypassed and that will likely never upgrade here (not counting the ones on LOAs). They don't even have to give you a shot at it; they'll just say they don't think you're ready. |
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