Omni Air Pilot Negotiations update
08-04-2017, 07:26 AM
#241
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
If and when the language is finalized to a contractual language level and not sent out for a vote, or at a minimum the information is not shared with the membership, then I believe we will have some problems.
Let’s be blunt. The reason the hierarchy within the IBT doesn’t desire a vote based on the last proposal, is because they’re concerned it might pass. Approving a contract that doesn’t meet the IBT leadership’s goals will hinder the negotiations at say…Atlas.
So it really comes down to a basic philosophical decision:
1. Should the first obligation of our OAI representatives be to us….or.
2. Should the first obligation of our reps be to the IBT in a larger industry wide sense?
This same decision process can be applied to the IBT 1224 as well.
That’s the way I see it.
From a point of principle, I think allowing each Omni crewmember to vote is the most unbiased and evenhanded way forward. Everyone gets one vote and thus, their say.
If the offer doesn’t meet the majority’s requirements – it’s voted down.
If the offer meets the majority’s requirements – it’s voted in.
To ExtraMediums point; I don’t completely trust the Company or the IBT. Sorry - but I believe we are being played by other forces within the IBT.
That’s not to say they don’t have many of our best interests at hand, or that everyone involved is operating unethically, but ultimately I have more trust in using my own eyes and ears along with all individual members voting together.
You’re free to disagree and if so, no hard feelings.
Greenflash had a good point awhile back that if a vote took place and was voted down, that would further delay the process. I have to think OAI ownership is aware of this and would make the offer such that it has a high likelihood of passing. I could be wrong.
ExtraMedium has more trust in the IBT than I do (Not that I have zero trust). I could be wrong.
Let’s be blunt. The reason the hierarchy within the IBT doesn’t desire a vote based on the last proposal, is because they’re concerned it might pass. Approving a contract that doesn’t meet the IBT leadership’s goals will hinder the negotiations at say…Atlas.
So it really comes down to a basic philosophical decision:
1. Should the first obligation of our OAI representatives be to us….or.
2. Should the first obligation of our reps be to the IBT in a larger industry wide sense?
This same decision process can be applied to the IBT 1224 as well.
That’s the way I see it.
From a point of principle, I think allowing each Omni crewmember to vote is the most unbiased and evenhanded way forward. Everyone gets one vote and thus, their say.
If the offer doesn’t meet the majority’s requirements – it’s voted down.
If the offer meets the majority’s requirements – it’s voted in.
To ExtraMediums point; I don’t completely trust the Company or the IBT. Sorry - but I believe we are being played by other forces within the IBT.
That’s not to say they don’t have many of our best interests at hand, or that everyone involved is operating unethically, but ultimately I have more trust in using my own eyes and ears along with all individual members voting together.
You’re free to disagree and if so, no hard feelings.
Greenflash had a good point awhile back that if a vote took place and was voted down, that would further delay the process. I have to think OAI ownership is aware of this and would make the offer such that it has a high likelihood of passing. I could be wrong.
ExtraMedium has more trust in the IBT than I do (Not that I have zero trust). I could be wrong.
08-10-2017, 12:15 AM
#242
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 58
I feel like the unions latest response to a certain company email was quite strong. Is there any way to read that where the company didn't outright lie to us?
08-10-2017, 03:37 AM
#243
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 28
The company admitted that they outright lied to us last December with their final "take it, or leave it" offer then. That right there damages absolutely any credibility that they might have had. I've spoken to a few that we're toting the line of voting for the offer then, now on the side of not voting for their current offer due to lack of trust and knowing that the company can only be holding out on us once again. Publicly releasing details of their offer is having the opposite effect of what they were trying to accomplish.
08-10-2017, 04:20 AM
#244
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,075
JC seriously tipped his hand with this latest sermon. There will always be the acolytes, but this will certainly work against him with the non-zealots.
I particularly enjoyed his discussion of trust and unambiguous wording in the contract. Even now, under the current contract, crystal clear language is met with an arbitrary "Well, that's not how we interpret it."
At which point it disappears into the grievance process, never to be seen again; but that's a discussion for another thread.
Does he not know, or does he just choose to ignore that the trust problem is not in the text?
I particularly enjoyed his discussion of trust and unambiguous wording in the contract. Even now, under the current contract, crystal clear language is met with an arbitrary "Well, that's not how we interpret it."
At which point it disappears into the grievance process, never to be seen again; but that's a discussion for another thread.
Does he not know, or does he just choose to ignore that the trust problem is not in the text?
Last edited by Hetman; 08-10-2017 at 04:32 AM.
08-13-2017, 06:03 AM
#245
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by GreenFlash
The company admitted that they outright lied to us last December with their final "take it, or leave it" offer then. That right there damages absolutely any credibility that they might have had. I've spoken to a few that we're toting the line of voting for the offer then, now on the side of not voting for their current offer due to lack of trust and knowing that the company can only be holding out on us once again. Publicly releasing details of their offer is having the opposite effect of what they were trying to accomplish.
Most I've spoken to are not turned off by the company releasing information regarding the last proposal.
08-13-2017, 10:44 AM
#246
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Window Seat
Posts: 1,430
Look... whatever the situation surrounding it... it is not often you hear a president of an airline apologize for the way something was ha dles directly to the workforce. I've only worked for one other person who was willing/able/humble enough to do that. And that airline truly turned into a rathole after he left.
08-13-2017, 05:53 PM
#247
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,075
No. He threatened the pilots with a "take this lowball offer or you will all be looking for jobs" gambit. F.U.D., right out of the playbook.
The NC called the bluff. Now he is trying to backpedal.
Seeing as how it was a deliberate attempt to ramrod a poor offer- an attempt which failed- the "apology" rings somewhat hollow to my ears.
The NC called the bluff. Now he is trying to backpedal.
Seeing as how it was a deliberate attempt to ramrod a poor offer- an attempt which failed- the "apology" rings somewhat hollow to my ears.
Last edited by Hetman; 08-13-2017 at 06:05 PM.
08-14-2017, 03:54 PM
#248
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 38
Do not fall for managements threats.
I worked for the same guy at Ryan International, we were flying a US Postal contract and they threatened to shut it down, all lies!
Give in to them and they will be the ones celebrating when you sign your next contract as they laugh all the way to the bank.
This is the best job market most of us have seen for a new contract in our careers, don't blow it.
I worked for the same guy at Ryan International, we were flying a US Postal contract and they threatened to shut it down, all lies!
Give in to them and they will be the ones celebrating when you sign your next contract as they laugh all the way to the bank.
This is the best job market most of us have seen for a new contract in our careers, don't blow it.
08-14-2017, 05:31 PM
#249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 174
Originally Posted by HeavyLift
Do not fall for managements threats.
I worked for the same guy at Ryan International, we were flying a US Postal contract and they threatened to shut it down, all lies!
Give in to them and they will be the ones celebrating when you sign your next contract as they laugh all the way to the bank.
This is the best job market most of us have seen for a new contract in our careers, don't blow it.
I worked for the same guy at Ryan International, we were flying a US Postal contract and they threatened to shut it down, all lies!
Give in to them and they will be the ones celebrating when you sign your next contract as they laugh all the way to the bank.
This is the best job market most of us have seen for a new contract in our careers, don't blow it.
08-14-2017, 07:12 PM
#250
Sitting and scratching...
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Upright
Posts: 371
Ignorant I know, but said out of frustration for your pilot group; but out of spite, regardless of the first mgmt proposal knowing full well the climate of the current market and the arrogance of mgmt not negotiating in good faith, the first TA should be nyet. Make mgmt work just a little harder and sweat a little so they can squirm and experience a portion of what it feels like to experience the setbacks and frustrations we/you as pilots have endured in your/our careers.
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