walleye

Buzzd is right. Proof? Would you like the names of the 7 or 8 people who have gone to UAL through the CPP this year? (Yep - they’ve only sent 7-8 people so far in 2019!!!). Maybe you would like the names of the 6 people who got their time months ago and are still waiting for a class? How about the names of the 8+ people who are going to get their 1,000 hours in the next 6 months but will then have to wait another 6 months for a class date? Commute could have sent everyone that is currently waiting BUT they aren’t. Proof - the facts speak for themselves. That is the proof.

So maybe Commute isn’t calling it ‘holding people back’ BUT if Commute is changing the rules and making people get their 1,000 hours and then wait another 6 months - then that sure seems like ‘holding people back’ to me.

Sure you can say “wow those guys sure are lucky to even get a chance to go to UAL” BUT make no mistake. Commute HAS changed the CPP rules AND they can do it again. Before it was get 1,000 hours and get a class. Now it’s get 1,000 hours and wait 6 months for a class. Next it will be get 1,000 hours and wait 9-12 months for a class. Past performance IS an indicator of future results.

The CPP pilots have done everything Commute asked them to do. The terms were very clear when these pilots signed up for the CPP. It’s not fair to change the terms of the agreement after the fact. Making them wait another six months puts these CPP pilots in jeopardy of getting removed from the program. During these six months maybe they bust a check ride or have some other letter placed in their file and Bada-bing Bada-boom. No more CPP.

FredFlystone

Walleye, what flavor Kool-Aid is ol’ Buzzy serving? Bet it’s bitter....

Excargodog

Calling on the man to lay FACTS on the table is entirely appropriate. Comments like the above, much less so.

The reality is that NONE OF THE LEGACIES are particularly short of well qualified candidates and are unlikely to be for at least another four or five years. For the legacy airlines with flow (American) or preferential programs (United, Delta, Alaska), the overwhelming reason for these programs us to STAFF THEIR REGIONAL FEEDERS.
It is NOT to provide feed to the Legacy whose HR departments could (currently at least) randomly toss out two-thirds of the applications they have on file and still have more than enough applicants to meet the needs at the major level.

But since half of the pax carried are carried by a regional, keeping the regional staffed IS a priority. Prompt progression through the regional and in to the Legacy frustrates that goal, it does not promote it. Nor is that particularly helpful to the Legacy itself.

If the Legacy had their choice the people they would REALLY LIKE are the retiring military pilots, for a number of reasons, but especially because of their ages. Initial training costs for new pilots are NOT a huge budget line item, in fact they sort of get lost (for a Legacy) among the recurrency training and switching type training that goes on. But a 42 year old pilot is only going to be at the top of the payscale in longevity for about ten years while a 25 year old new hire is going to be there for twenty-eight years. Older is cheaper. So all the incentive for the Legacy is to keep those people they have in the regional there as long as possible.

And a number of Legacy execs have expressed frustration with their flow and preferential programs because they don’t think the product they pay are getting is actually competitive with their offthe street hires. One HUGE problem in a number if regionals has been senior FOs sort of camping out and waiting for their flows without upgrading or doing the usual sorts of jobs like safety and check airman that people trying to buff up their resumes for OTS hire at a legacy typically do. That was NOT what the legacies envisioned happening when they started these programs. So not only does the regional now have a chronic shortage of captains, but when these people get to the Legacy they have significantly less to offer experience wise than their fellows who were OTS hires.

Because of that several Legacies (Alaska, United) have had to impose minimum 121 TPIC requirements on their feeder regional flow or preferential candidates and one (American) has even required forced upgrades of senior FOs.

So yeah, it’s fine to keep Buzzd honest, but at the same time be honest with yourself. While United and the other Legacies can no longer get the number of ex-military flyers they wish they could, they are a long way from NEEDING preferential programs like CPP , DGI, or flow programs to staff the Legacy. That too needs to be looked at honestly.

FredFlystone

I fell asleep reading your rant. Can you summarize?

Excargodog

Your laziness, attention deficit, or comprehension difficulties are not my responsibility. There are many of your peers entirely capable of understanding the above, without having it spoonfed to them. And since they are the ones you’ll be competing with at the next level, you probably need the practice figuring it out yourself.

FredFlystone

If only I had your insight, said no one ever.

JUNEBUG82

6 CPP enrollees went to UAL in the 2nd quarter this year.

CPPfacts

There is growing discontent with the CPP program amongst all of the carriers that are eligible to participate. Very few pilots have made it to United and currently the program is on hold with no new applicants being accepted into the program.

CPPfacts

6 July 2019

Over the past eight months, the Association has repeatedly requested information about what the next generation of the United Career Path Program (CPP) would look like, or if there will even be one going forward. Since its inception the CPP has been plagued with issues and there has been little to no communication with participants, or the Association for that matter, about potential fixes or what the future holds for pilots at XJT in terms of career progression. Our requests for information were designed to provide feedback to United and the company about ways to improve the program for all parties involved.

Yesterday, we finally received the company’s first CPP communication in some time. This communication, strategically sent to a frustrated and exhausted pilot group over a holiday weekend, is language added to the CPP’s attendance and reliability policy. The update states:

United recently made a revision to the “Dependability” section of the CPP program. Specifically, a statement has been added that states “A complete dependability history (excused and unexcused occurrences) will be reviewed by United’ [sic] Board of Review (BOR).”

My preliminary discussions with the MECs of other CPP carriers indicate that this change is, to our present knowledge, exclusive to ExpressJet. While a majority of the attendance and reliability section of the CPP remains unchanged, the Association views yesterday’s update as a pitifully desperate and unoriginal attempt by a similarly-versed management team to solve their mounting operational and staffing issues by threatening possible career repercussions if you call in sick. Our sick calls have increased, but this is no doubt due to the increased physical and psychological stress our pilots face — a symptom of the horrendous state of life on the line and management’s inability to solve the staffing challenges they face. Quality of life has fallen to record lows at XJT, resulting in over-worked and over-extended pilots who, being human, then get sick.

This revision essentially results in two different sick policies for XJT pilots to abide by; the first is the company’s current Attendance and Reliability Program policy and the second is outlined in the CPP guidelines to be used to determine a pilot’s eligibility for the CPP. The company’s sick note policy on xjt.com and the provisions in our collective bargaining agreement remain unchanged. The Federal Aviation Administration Regulations require pilots to assess their fitness for flight prior to each and every flight, and a pilot who calls in sick and meets the requirements of the company’s sick note policy cannot be disciplined. Your ability to conduct safe operations should be your one and only consideration when determining your fitness for duty. To be clear, a pilot should only call in sick if he or she is unfit and should not call in sick if fit for duty. However, the company’s attempt to circumvent and undermine our negotiated work rules while pressuring this decision is simply unacceptable.

Thus far, the CPP has mostly been used as a recruiting and retention tool. Any attempt to sell it as a career progression tool is bogus, as a majority of qualified XJT pilots are unable to progress through the program, L-ASA pilots have yet to be considered and many are still waiting on a second-round Hogan. The recruiting department has recently and unethically used the program to claim on social media that “thousands” of pilots have moved on to United Airlines through the CPP. This claim is false. Even if they were speaking collectively of all UAX CPP carriers, the total number of pilots who have progressed to UAL through the CPP is fewer than 500.

The use of such a terribly mismanaged program to attract pilots on the one hand while simultaneously placing additional pressure on our exploited pilot group on the other is a move the Association deems intolerable on every front. Continue, as you always have, to take professional assessment of your fitness to fly in accordance with the regulations in order to keep yourself, your crew and your passengers safe.

If this program is going to continue to be used to control the pilots at XJT rather than fixing the challenges through the proper channels, it will ultimately become a program your MEC cannot support.

In unity,
ExpressJet MEC Chairman

PhantomHawk

Wrong thread. That statement seems to only apply to XJT for now.