Eight Captain upgrades a month? Do the math.
03-08-2018, 04:56 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by mpet
they would absolutely be upgrading more if they could but the pipeline needs to ramp up first and we're still feeling the pains of the hiring freeze. apparently we have people in training but they're just taking longer than anticipated to get through; eh you get what you pay for. (oh noes the mil rotorcraft pilots aren't rockstars in jet aircraft immediatly?) anyway, people doing math will always spin it for confirmation bias. there is no doing math at the regional level because things change literally overnight. nobody has a crystal ball. it's always better to be somewhere and be ahead of the curve when good news comes than to be a reactionary jumping ship. anyway, it's your decision what you do and yours alone.
03-08-2018, 05:42 PM
#13
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by AirBat
If they find themselves a bit short on CA they can literally do 3 classes of 12 in a month and boom, no more shortage.
Hence moving heaven and earth to find hires with prior 121time
Last edited by Excargodog; 03-08-2018 at 06:09 PM.
03-08-2018, 06:06 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: On the right hand side
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by AirBat
Post of the year. They only are throttling temporarily and it'll resume especially when they get right seat qual captain. But as you said they're short FO, so what are they supposed to do, upgrade them to CA and be even shorter? Yet they can't just not upgrade either. That's why it's 8. It's the minimum that lets them kick the can down the road a bit. But they can CA upgrade fast if they need to, it is a tiny footprint unlike initial new hire FO. If they find themselves a bit short on CA they can literally do 3 classes of 12 in a month and boom, no more shortage.
My guess is FOs will upgrade, and find themselves still sitting right seat again, but wearing 4 stripes. They might fly some left seat too, the question is how often.
03-08-2018, 06:07 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted by Excargodog
So we are to assume the brain trust that CREATED this problem with the hiring freeze will lead turn the time to turn the captain spigot back on? And that most all the captain eligible FOs won’t have booked for greener pastures in the interim?
What is there about the history of this boondoggle that gives you such confidence in the wisdom of those people who made these decisions? It seems like the triumph of hope over experience.
To me it seems like they are people who didn’t learn from their first mistake.
What is there about the history of this boondoggle that gives you such confidence in the wisdom of those people who made these decisions? It seems like the triumph of hope over experience.
To me it seems like they are people who didn’t learn from their first mistake.
We need PEOPLE to upgrade more than we need to upgrade to get people. Follow?
03-08-2018, 06:08 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted by veewan
If they are right and left seat qualified, there’s no problem...you can fly them either seat. So you have an additional CA who can act as FO.
My guess is FOs will upgrade, and find themselves still sitting right seat again, but wearing 4 stripes. They might fly some left seat too, the question is how often.
My guess is FOs will upgrade, and find themselves still sitting right seat again, but wearing 4 stripes. They might fly some left seat too, the question is how often.
03-08-2018, 06:32 PM
#18
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by AirBat
So which is it, the upgrade time is too long or there's not enough people with 1000 hrs? Because it can't be both. It's the excargodog paradox!
Now you can make fun of me all you want, but I didn't create this problem. Your childlike trust in the people who did to now cope with the problem with simplistic thinking may give you comfort but the issues are just a little more complex than that.
You are assuming, for example, that the rate of senior FOs departing Compass for greener other opportunities is unaffected by the difference in pay they would make as a captain vs a senior FO. Possible, it unlikely.
You are also assuming that potential hires are going to believe in the currently advertised 18-24 month upgrades DESPITE the reduced upgrade rate. Some will of cours, but perhaps not he quality of people you need to reduce the current training delays and attrition.
And yes, eventually queuing and new hires might well actually take care of the problem, assuming another 6-8 months go by and the newbies pass rates can be increased at which point the FO shortage becomes a captain shortage, quite possibly with a dearth of 1000 hour FOs and Compass will be looking for street captains like other regionals.
So rag on me all you want, I didn’t create this problem, Compass management did. And they are trying to get out of a problem if their own creation in the cheap, and I don't think they are going to be successful on the cheap. I think if they don’t change this policy they are headed where Horizon went, farming out their planes and their flying to someone who could adequately staff them.
But if your childish faith in them somehow does prove justified, I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong. Time will tell.
03-08-2018, 06:53 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Tell that to Horizon and other regionals hiring street captains.
Now you can make fun of me all you want, but I didn't create this problem. Your childlike trust in the people who did to now cope with the problem with simplistic thinking may give you comfort but the issues are just a little more complex than that.
You are assuming, for example, that the rate of senior FOs departing Compass for greener other opportunities is unaffected by the difference in pay they would make as a captain vs a senior FO. Possible, it unlikely.
You are also assuming that potential hires are going to believe in the currently advertised 18-24 month upgrades DESPITE the reduced upgrade rate. Some will of cours, but perhaps not he quality of people you need to reduce the current training delays and attrition.
And yes, eventually queuing and new hires might well actually take care of the problem, assuming another 6-8 months go by and the newbies pass rates can be increased at which point the FO shortage becomes a captain shortage, quite possibly with a dearth of 1000 hour FOs and Compass will be looking for street captains like other regionals.
So rag on me all you want, I didn’t create this problem, Compass management did. And they are trying to get out of a problem if their own creation in the cheap, and I don't think they are going to be successful on the cheap. I think if they don’t change this policy they are headed where Horizon went, farming out their planes and their flying to someone who could adequately staff them.
But if your childish faith in them somehow does prove justified, I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong. Time will tell.
Now you can make fun of me all you want, but I didn't create this problem. Your childlike trust in the people who did to now cope with the problem with simplistic thinking may give you comfort but the issues are just a little more complex than that.
You are assuming, for example, that the rate of senior FOs departing Compass for greener other opportunities is unaffected by the difference in pay they would make as a captain vs a senior FO. Possible, it unlikely.
You are also assuming that potential hires are going to believe in the currently advertised 18-24 month upgrades DESPITE the reduced upgrade rate. Some will of cours, but perhaps not he quality of people you need to reduce the current training delays and attrition.
And yes, eventually queuing and new hires might well actually take care of the problem, assuming another 6-8 months go by and the newbies pass rates can be increased at which point the FO shortage becomes a captain shortage, quite possibly with a dearth of 1000 hour FOs and Compass will be looking for street captains like other regionals.
So rag on me all you want, I didn’t create this problem, Compass management did. And they are trying to get out of a problem if their own creation in the cheap, and I don't think they are going to be successful on the cheap. I think if they don’t change this policy they are headed where Horizon went, farming out their planes and their flying to someone who could adequately staff them.
But if your childish faith in them somehow does prove justified, I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong. Time will tell.
If you want to come work here, (if you don't) then come work here. If you are STILL this hung up on these things, maybe another company would be a better fit.
03-08-2018, 06:58 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,481
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Tell that to Horizon and other regionals hiring street captains.
Now you can make fun of me all you want, but I didn't create this problem. Your childlike trust in the people who did to now cope with the problem with simplistic thinking may give you comfort but the issues are just a little more complex than that.
You are assuming, for example, that the rate of senior FOs departing Compass for greener other opportunities is unaffected by the difference in pay they would make as a captain vs a senior FO. Possible, it unlikely.
You are also assuming that potential hires are going to believe in the currently advertised 18-24 month upgrades DESPITE the reduced upgrade rate. Some will of cours, but perhaps not he quality of people you need to reduce the current training delays and attrition.
And yes, eventually queuing and new hires might well actually take care of the problem, assuming another 6-8 months go by and the newbies pass rates can be increased at which point the FO shortage becomes a captain shortage, quite possibly with a dearth of 1000 hour FOs and Compass will be looking for street captains like other regionals.
So rag on me all you want, I didn’t create this problem, Compass management did. And they are trying to get out of a problem if their own creation in the cheap, and I don't think they are going to be successful on the cheap. I think if they don’t change this policy they are headed where Horizon went, farming out their planes and their flying to someone who could adequately staff them.
But if your childish faith in them somehow does prove justified, I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong. Time will tell.
Now you can make fun of me all you want, but I didn't create this problem. Your childlike trust in the people who did to now cope with the problem with simplistic thinking may give you comfort but the issues are just a little more complex than that.
You are assuming, for example, that the rate of senior FOs departing Compass for greener other opportunities is unaffected by the difference in pay they would make as a captain vs a senior FO. Possible, it unlikely.
You are also assuming that potential hires are going to believe in the currently advertised 18-24 month upgrades DESPITE the reduced upgrade rate. Some will of cours, but perhaps not he quality of people you need to reduce the current training delays and attrition.
And yes, eventually queuing and new hires might well actually take care of the problem, assuming another 6-8 months go by and the newbies pass rates can be increased at which point the FO shortage becomes a captain shortage, quite possibly with a dearth of 1000 hour FOs and Compass will be looking for street captains like other regionals.
So rag on me all you want, I didn’t create this problem, Compass management did. And they are trying to get out of a problem if their own creation in the cheap, and I don't think they are going to be successful on the cheap. I think if they don’t change this policy they are headed where Horizon went, farming out their planes and their flying to someone who could adequately staff them.
But if your childish faith in them somehow does prove justified, I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong. Time will tell.
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