Compass shut down or bough by DAL
03-23-2018, 03:02 PM
#51
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,199
Originally Posted by NeverFlexTO
Endeavor is starting to hire street captains/award captains out of Indoc training...and has 20 year captains in MSP on reserve. Again not sure how you’re going to staff the airplanes. The legacy ASA guys chased the planes because they stayed in ATL and there lifers, we don’t have that...
Skywest is having horrific staffing problems as well...
For those at RAH who think our guys will come there, why wouldn’t our guys just go to a spirit or frontier and be FOs rather than start back at year 1 pay? Many are starting to do that now...
I’m not buying the whole “the pilots will follow the planes” no body gives two poops about flying a 175, a majority of pilots go to an airline for QOL and where they live. You won’t sell me on the quick upgrade cause the majors are plucking FOs from regionals. If most of our guys start new at any of those places listed above, there’s a high probability they’ll have to commute from one coast to the other...not a very attractive option. So again why not a Frontier/Spirit/Allegiant and ride it out till a major calls
So again, I’ll ask whose going to fly these planes without a merger...
Skywest is having horrific staffing problems as well...
For those at RAH who think our guys will come there, why wouldn’t our guys just go to a spirit or frontier and be FOs rather than start back at year 1 pay? Many are starting to do that now...
I’m not buying the whole “the pilots will follow the planes” no body gives two poops about flying a 175, a majority of pilots go to an airline for QOL and where they live. You won’t sell me on the quick upgrade cause the majors are plucking FOs from regionals. If most of our guys start new at any of those places listed above, there’s a high probability they’ll have to commute from one coast to the other...not a very attractive option. So again why not a Frontier/Spirit/Allegiant and ride it out till a major calls
So again, I’ll ask whose going to fly these planes without a merger...
03-24-2018, 02:51 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Boeing 737 FO
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by BobbyLeeSwagger
This 100%. That's why I'm not too worried. If there are mergers it will be because there are NOT enough pilots, not because there are NOT enough jobs. It will all work itself y'all. We are a very fortunate generation of pilots to be where we are right now. Get your time, enjoy the ride.
03-24-2018, 03:39 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by NeverFlexTO
Endeavor is starting to hire street captains/award captains out of Indoc training...and has 20 year captains in MSP on reserve. Again not sure how you’re going to staff the airplanes. The legacy ASA guys chased the planes because they stayed in ATL and there lifers, we don’t have that...
Skywest is having horrific staffing problems as well...
For those at RAH who think our guys will come there, why wouldn’t our guys just go to a spirit or frontier and be FOs rather than start back at year 1 pay? Many are starting to do that now...
I’m not buying the whole “the pilots will follow the planes” no body gives two poops about flying a 175, a majority of pilots go to an airline for QOL and where they live. You won’t sell me on the quick upgrade cause the majors are plucking FOs from regionals. If most of our guys start new at any of those places listed above, there’s a high probability they’ll have to commute from one coast to the other...not a very attractive option. So again why not a Frontier/Spirit/Allegiant and ride it out till a major calls
So again, I’ll ask whose going to fly these planes without a merger...
Skywest is having horrific staffing problems as well...
For those at RAH who think our guys will come there, why wouldn’t our guys just go to a spirit or frontier and be FOs rather than start back at year 1 pay? Many are starting to do that now...
I’m not buying the whole “the pilots will follow the planes” no body gives two poops about flying a 175, a majority of pilots go to an airline for QOL and where they live. You won’t sell me on the quick upgrade cause the majors are plucking FOs from regionals. If most of our guys start new at any of those places listed above, there’s a high probability they’ll have to commute from one coast to the other...not a very attractive option. So again why not a Frontier/Spirit/Allegiant and ride it out till a major calls
So again, I’ll ask whose going to fly these planes without a merger...
03-24-2018, 06:08 PM
#54
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,609
Originally Posted by gojo
Comair and ExpressJet/ASA thought they were safe also. Never underestimate Delta or this industry for that matter. Skywest and GoJet are still attracting pilots with their subpar contracts. And if Endeavor or Republic were to get the Compass planes and open a West Coast base I think you’d see they’d be able to staff without a merger.
Even under the best of circumstances you aren't going to get 400 people recruited, their ATP done, and through sim training without an enormous expense. While I have no idea what an E-175 sim goes for an hour, or how much it costs for instructors, or how much you spend on recruiters per new hire, the new hire salary and hotel expenses while going through training alone must be north of $20K a head, and that doesn't even count the signing bonuses that are now being given. That's an asset that in training alone is - at an absolute minimum - worth $12 million or so, and very likely double that.
And this for a group who have already 100% COMPLETED training, so you aren't going to be paying for training attrition either. Nor are you going to want to be parking dozens of aircraft while you crank 400 people through training.
Now clearly, all things are possible, and I will admit I've seen companies do stupider things, but I think what BobbyLeeSwagger posted makes more sense.
03-24-2018, 07:19 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Boeing 737 FO
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by Excargodog
I suppose all things are POSSIBLE but why would they want to? They certainly don't have 400 or so E-175 type rated and line qualified pilots just sitting around, not even Republic. When a group of 650 already qualified pilots exist, why would anyone wish to spend the additional money to recreate what already exists?
Even under the best of circumstances you aren't going to get 400 people recruited, their ATP done, and through sim training without an enormous expense. While I have no idea what an E-175 sim goes for an hour, or how much it costs for instructors, or how much you spend on recruiters per new hire, the new hire salary and hotel expenses while going through training alone must be north of $20K a head, and that doesn't even count the signing bonuses that are now being given. That's an asset that in training alone is - at an absolute minimum - worth $12 million or so, and very likely double that.
And this for a group who have already 100% COMPLETED training, so you aren't going to be paying for training attrition either. Nor are you going to want to be parking dozens of aircraft while you crank 400 people through training.
Now clearly, all things are possible, and I will admit I've seen companies do stupider things, but I think what BobbyLeeSwagger posted makes more sense.
Even under the best of circumstances you aren't going to get 400 people recruited, their ATP done, and through sim training without an enormous expense. While I have no idea what an E-175 sim goes for an hour, or how much it costs for instructors, or how much you spend on recruiters per new hire, the new hire salary and hotel expenses while going through training alone must be north of $20K a head, and that doesn't even count the signing bonuses that are now being given. That's an asset that in training alone is - at an absolute minimum - worth $12 million or so, and very likely double that.
And this for a group who have already 100% COMPLETED training, so you aren't going to be paying for training attrition either. Nor are you going to want to be parking dozens of aircraft while you crank 400 people through training.
Now clearly, all things are possible, and I will admit I've seen companies do stupider things, but I think what BobbyLeeSwagger posted makes more sense.
03-24-2018, 09:07 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Boeing 737 FO
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by mpet
Were they? I don't seem to remember a pilot shortage when comair got shut down and by your logic endeavor pilots are just as valuable as comair pilots were and I'm not buying that. I also don't remember either of those pilot groups having experience on a type that endeavor is supposedly trying to add and nor was the pilot group much less expensive than current 9e pilots are nor did it have pilots out west with mx bases and FAs and sim instructors etc etc. Nobody knows what's going to happen so why speculate anyway. Where do these 9e pilots think these 36 e175s are going? None of you seem to be able to answer that yet you know everything Delta has planned?
03-24-2018, 09:49 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 856
I don't think any of us know what will happen to any regional in the next few years. If you did, you're in the wrong career because you could make a lot more money as a stock market broker with that kind of insight. There is no doubt that the regionals are going to change in the future, I I just hope we all can support each other when that happens. All this bickering about who's gonna fly what and who's company can staff better brings me down a bit. But I have this hope in the back of my head that us regional guys are starting to realize we have the upper hand and will pull each other up to finally bring an end to this subpar lifestyle that was created to lower ticket prices.
03-24-2018, 10:01 PM
#60
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,199
Originally Posted by poorflyer
I don't think any of us know what will happen to any regional in the next few years. If you did, you're in the wrong career because you could make a lot more money as a stock market broker with that kind of insight. There is no doubt that the regionals are going to change in the future, I I just hope we all can support each other when that happens. All this bickering about who's gonna fly what and who's company can staff better brings me down a bit. But I have this hope in the back of my head that us regional guys are starting to realize we have the upper hand and will pull each other up to finally bring an end to this subpar lifestyle that was created to lower ticket prices.
"I'm so excited.... and I just can't hide it... I'm about to lose control and I think I like it!!!"
I sing it probably once a trip, usually as we close the doors.
Btw, did some hack my account earlier today??
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